Analysis of current AH's rules regarding shill/internal/sketchy bidding practices

insidethewrapper · #1 10-11-2019, 07:24 PM

If an item has a reserve price , then that should be where the bidding starts, since the consignor will not take anything less. Seems simple to me. If the reserve is 100K, then the starting price is 100K. If you bid more than this, the highest bidder gets the item. Why secret reserves ?

perezfan · #2 10-11-2019, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

If an item has a reserve price , then that should be where the bidding starts, since the consignor will not take anything less. Seems simple to me. If the reserve is 100K, then the starting price is 100K. If you bid more than this, the highest bidder gets the item. Why secret reserves ?

Agree... But their objective is to get lots of bidders competing for the item. So it behooves them to start it off low- knowing there�s no risk, given the hidden reserve. They feel that the more people who prospectively �take early ownership� of the item, the better chance of the price being driven up.

Does not make it right... just stating their rationale.

x2drich2000 · #3 10-11-2019, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

Does not make it right... just stating their rationale.

I understand what you are trying to say, but honestly, that's just the AH doing what they should be doing, trying to get the most money for the consignor. The more people are bidding, competing, and raising the price, the better the AH is doing for both themselves and the interest of the consignor.

perezfan · #4 10-11-2019, 08:43 PM

Yes, and that's exactly what I want as the consignor.

As a bidder, it's a different story!

steve B · #5 10-11-2019, 10:06 PM

A local antique auction I used to go to had something similar.

They would announce just before starting that the people helping out were dealers, and were allowed to bid on items. It was mostly because without allowing them to bid they wouldn't get any qualified help. (I always figured it was because they asked friends to help since they'd be there anyway. )
Each had a specialty, and would rarely bid on any other sort of item. One was a doll dealer, and usually won. A couple of the others had shops that I'd been to and saw items for sale that they'd won a week earlier.

On the face of it it did seem a bit shady, but I never got the impression that it was anything but what it was announced as.

Fred · #6 10-11-2019, 10:48 PM

So what's the difference between AHs allowing their own employees to bid on their own lots and what Mastro (and company) did?

ValKehl · #7 10-12-2019, 12:53 AM

I read the T&Cs for all the major auction I participate in. Although I don't leave max bids very often, I NEVER leave max bids with Mile High, Heritage, and other auction houses that have similar T&Cs. But, I will leave max bids on occasion with auction houses that I consider to be very ethical AND that have T&Cs similar to REA's and LOTG's. In fact, I was traveling during the close of the recent LOTG auction, so I left a max bid on a scarce, pricey (for me) card I really wanted, even though I was pretty sure this card was consigned by LOTG's owner (I later learned that it was); and, I won this card for LESS than my max bid.

bnorth · #8 10-12-2019, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred

So what's the difference between AHs allowing their own employees to bid on their own lots and what Mastro (and company) did?

Location, location, location.

Shoeless Moe · #9 10-12-2019, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred

So what's the difference between AHs allowing their own employees to bid on their own lots and what Mastro (and company) did?

It's that they are telling you up front. Like when I go into a store I say very loudly when I'm shoplifting, "I'm stealing this!!!!!" then walk out the door.

As long as you say it, you're good.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #10 10-14-2019, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred

So what's the difference between AHs allowing their own employees to bid on their own lots and what Mastro (and company) did?

Ostensibly these auction houses don't have knowledge of the bids of others.

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