Analysis of current AH's rules regarding shill/internal/sketchy bidding practices

Peter_Spaeth · #1 10-14-2019, 08:24 PM

I have a vision (relayed to me by a friend) of Bill Mastro back in the day at one of his own auctions, with a bid paddle.

When the house wins an auction, and of course doesn't pay a premium, how is the price reported to the community?

Flintboy · #2 10-14-2019, 09:20 PM

I give credit to Heritage, they came on here and said they bid on their own auctions. I guess my definition of shill bidding is different than theirs.

ValKehl · #3 10-14-2019, 09:46 PM

Chris, I applaud you for posting the clarifications to Heritage's T&C #21, and I have assumed that you have been completely candid with us. But, as you can see, your damage-control effort and "only post on the matter" was one post too many, for it has backfired on you. IMHO, not that you are likely to care about my HO, what Heritage should at least do is completely revise T&C #21 to include the essence your clarifications. Regardless, you have not changed or even dented my intention to NEVER leave a max bid in a Heritage auction as long as T&C #21 remains (or with any other auction house that has a similar T&C).

JollyElm · #4 10-14-2019, 10:13 PM

Wow...I mean WOW. You really thought your post was a good thing, Chris 'Poison' Ivy??????????????? My gawd!!!!!

ValKehl · #5 10-14-2019, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Wow...I mean WOW. You really thought your post was a good thing, Chris 'Poison' Ivy??????????????? My gawd!!!!!

Darren, obviously you don't think so. But, I said what i meant, and I meant what I said. Throughout my life, I have striven to "do the right thing." IMHO, what Heritage is doing regarding their T&C #21 is not the right thing (for any auction house). Simple as that.

Peter_Spaeth · #6 10-14-2019, 11:01 PM

Concerning Chris' claim to be "well within the bounds of hobby ethics," does any other auction house openly bid on items in its own auction -- I am not talking about individual employees bidding for their collections, but the house itself?

Peter_Spaeth · #7 10-14-2019, 11:06 PM

And as long as I'm being my cheerful and charming self, let me add that I really don't like this hit and run posting business, where people do a self-serving post and then announce they won't be back to engage with questions. It's OBNOXIOUS in my humble opinion. I am sure Chris is busy, but if he is too busy he shouldn't have posted in the first place. Besides, he isn't running Microsoft.

JollyElm · #8 10-14-2019, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Darren, obviously you don't think so. But, I said what i meant, and I meant what I said. Throughout my life, I have striven to "do the right thing." IMHO, what Heritage is doing regarding their T&C #21 is not the right thing (for any auction house). Simple as that.

I'm confused. My post wasn't in any way about you. It had nothing to do with what you wrote. I read what the auction guy posted and couldn't believe he thought it was a good/proper thing. The arrogance. Clearly a case of him thinking everyone else on the planet is stupid. And buymycards' post says it all. Two thumbs up!

ValKehl · #9 10-14-2019, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JollyElm

I'm confused. My post wasn't in any way about you. It had nothing to do with what you wrote. I read what the auction guy posted and couldn't believe he thought it was a good/proper thing. The arrogance. Clearly a case of him thinking everyone else on the planet is stupid. And buymycards' post says it all. Two thumbs up!

Darren, I'm sorry that I misinterpreted your post. But, since you post immediately followed mine, it appeared to me that you were directly responding to my post. No problem - all is good.

benjulmag · #10 10-15-2019, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

When the house wins an auction, and of course doesn't pay a premium, how is the price reported to the community?

From an economic perspective, inasmuch as by winning the item the AH has forgone the right to collect the BP from the underbidder, I would characterize that forgone revenue as an opportunity cost "paid" by the AH to win the item, and add it to the hammer price when reporting the realized price.

Whether in fact AHs do this I don't know, but IMO if they did they would not be mispresenting the realized price.

Peter_Spaeth · #11 10-15-2019, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benjulmag

From an economic perspective, inasmuch as by winning the item the AH has forgone the right to collect the BP from the underbidder, I would characterize that forgone revenue as an opportunity cost "paid" by the AH to win the item, and add it to the hammer price when reporting the realized price.

Whether in fact AHs do this I don't know, but IMO if they did they would not be mispresenting the realized price.

Maybe it comes to the same thing, but I think the accurate price would be the highest "real" bid plus the BP.

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