Analysis of current AH's rules regarding shill/internal/sketchy bidding practices

Peter_Spaeth · #1 10-16-2019, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

This has come up before. Who determines what people are known card doctors? What prevents their wife, family member, or friend from submitting on their behalf? I'm not sure that's the solution.

If I were a lawyer I would say non-responsive.

pokerplyr80 · #2 10-16-2019, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If I were a lawyer I would say non-responsive.

Lol, well add "no, however" to the beginning of my comment and hopefully that will qualify as responsive.

Peter_Spaeth · #3 10-16-2019, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Lol, well add "no, however" to the beginning of my comment and hopefully that will qualify as responsive.

Much better, though of course we disagree.

pokerplyr80 · #4 10-16-2019, 01:58 PM

Peter I see what you're saying and don't disagree completely. It would certainly be nice of them to notify the buyer, especially given the value of the card.

But again I don't think we can expect that, and wouldn't want to be the one to decide where to draw the line.

As to Adam and others who agree despite disagreements in the past I appreciate that. My defense of Heritage in this case is not much different than my less popular opinions. I think the focus should be on how these cards got into the incorrect holders. Not who is selling them.

Peter_Spaeth · #5 10-16-2019, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Peter I see what you're saying and don't disagree completely. It would certainly be nice of them to notify the buyer, especially given the value of the card.

But again I don't think we can expect that, and wouldn't want to be the one to decide where to draw the line.

As to Adam and others who agree despite disagreements in the past I appreciate that. My defense of Heritage in this case is not much different than my less popular opinions. I think the focus should be on how these cards got into the incorrect holders. Not who is selling them.

I cannot believe it is even open to debate that someone who sold an altered 70k card should inform the buyer.

As for accepting consignments from card doctors, would you be OK if an AH took a consignment from Gary now?

pokerplyr80 · #6 10-16-2019, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I cannot believe it is even open to debate that someone who sold an altered 70k card should inform the buyer.

As for accepting consignments from card doctors, would you be OK if an AH took a consignment from Gary now?

We can agree they should notify the buyer. Assuming they're aware of the situation it would be the right thing to do. But I don't think they should be compelled to do so. Or that we should expect it, or a public statement.

As for Gary my guess is many auction houses are accepting consignments from others on his behalf without their knowledge. I doubt any would knowingly accept one directly at this point. I would prefer not to bid on items he consigned.

perezfan · #7 10-16-2019, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I cannot believe it is even open to debate that someone who sold an altered 70k card should inform the buyer.

As for accepting consignments from card doctors, would you be OK if an AH took a consignment from Gary now?

Agree that this is an absolute no-brainer. With all due respect to Jesse and Adam, why are you assuming the buyer of the altered Hull Card knows about its tainted history? How would he know, unless he frequents these forums? Of course the person should be notified.... immediately.

Most collectors do not read (and are not even aware) of these forums. If Heritage fails to notify the buyer, who will? Nobody else has his contact info.... only Heritage does. LOTG and REA would contact all parties involved without hesitation... so should Heritage.

Provide the Buyer with the card's history/info, and let him decide if a refund is warranted. Assuming he wants recourse/restitution, it should come from PSA (who's oversight on this obvious re-coloring is inexcusable).

As for the consignor of the card... Law Enforcement should definitely be made aware. Let the Feds decide if the consignor's story is credible.

Peter_Spaeth · #8 10-16-2019, 04:45 PM

If we ever had visibility into who is consigning to some of these auctions...

Peter_Spaeth · #9 10-16-2019, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

Agree that this is an absolute no-brainer. With all due respect to Jesse and Adam, why are you assuming the buyer of the altered Hull Card knows about its tainted history? How would he know, unless he frequents these forums? Of course the person should be notified.... immediately.

Most collectors do not read (and are not even aware) of these forums. If Heritage fails to notify the buyer, who will? Nobody else has his contact info.... only Heritage does. LOTG and REA would contact all parties involved without hesitation... so should Heritage.

Provide the Buyer with the card's history/info, and let him decide if a refund is warranted. Assuming he wants recourse/restitution, it should come from PSA (who's oversight on this obvious re-coloring is inexcusable).

As for the consignor of the card... Law Enforcement should definitely be made aware. Let the Feds decide if the consignor's story is credible.

No matter how many years this stuff goes on, or what is revealed, some people's instincts to defend and excuse never seem to change. Oh well. Santayana surely was right.

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