Analysis of PWCC Vintage Auction 10/13/19

Peter_Spaeth · #1 10-18-2019, 10:34 AM

To each his own, but the fact that a company intentionally printed only 10 or 5 or 1 of a card in an attempt to CREATE a valuable -- like the golden ticket in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory -- means nothing to me.

Dpeck100 · #2 10-18-2019, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

To each his own, but the fact that a company intentionally printed only 10 or 5 or 1 of a card in an attempt to CREATE a valuable -- like the golden ticket in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory -- means nothing to me.

The only modern cards I collect for the most part are Brock Lesnar. I just bought his "rarest" card and it is numbered to 25. I own the only PSA graded copy too. I paid $125 and $124. I am not the target audience for one of these cards either. It is fun to chase these down but under no circumstances am I paying 100 times more for this one vs. the other variations of the same card just in different colors with more made.

frankbmd · #3 10-18-2019, 10:52 AM

I'm sticking with my argument.

A shiny Jeter is not the stock exchange, it's a house of cards.

A shiny Jeter is not an asset, where's the bank to would accept it as collateral?

Dpeck100 · #4 10-18-2019, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankbmd

I'm sticking with my argument.

A shiny Jeter is not the stock exchange, it's a house of cards.

A shiny Jeter is not an asset, where's the bank to would accept it as collateral?

Comparing cards to stocks is tough. There have been a multitude of stocks that would appear a safer investment but have have gone down substantially. You can lose on anything in life.

Would I rather put 200k into liquid financial investments? Yes.

That said the buyer might have 200 million already there and wants to handle this card and be able to say he has it.

We are actually moving in the direction of cards being used as collateral. It has been discussed on this message board.

frankbmd · #5 10-18-2019, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

Comparing cards to stocks is tough. There have been a multitude of stocks that would appear a safer investment but have have gone down substantially. You can lose on anything in life.

Would I rather put 200k into liquid financial investments? Yes.

That said the buyer might have 200 million already there and wants to handle this card and be able to say he has it.

We are actually moving in the direction of cards being used as collateral. It has been discussed on this message board.

I'm not finding Net54 on any list of major lenders. If Leon is accepting cards as collateral, perhaps he can explain how that is structured.

Dpeck100 · #6 10-18-2019, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankbmd

I'm not finding Net54 on any list of major lenders. If Leon is accepting cards as collateral, perhaps he can explain how that is structured.

It has been done before back in the day and in the works now for sure. We had a big discussion on it here and clearly it will not give you advance rates as high as liquid investments can. You can borrow in the range of 75% against many traded securities and I would think somewhere in the 30% to 40% range is the most anyone should consider on cards.

I am going to give you an analogy that is more appropriate here. My wife is into purses. She has seven or eight Chanel's, a bunch of Gucci's, some Yves Saint Laurent and a few others. Quite a pricey collection of purses. A purse has one function and that is to carry things but the prices of these purses are predicated on scarcity and bragging rights. You would think these would be a enough but she wants a Hermes Birkin bag. These are the most scarce of designer bags and you can't just go into a store and buy one. They have to ask you if you want one and it is hard to have that happen. Which one of these sells for the most? The Birkin naturally because it has the ultimate bragging rights. This is just how the world works. We don't make the rules. Once cards are elevated to elite hobby status symbols they can take on a mind of their own in terms of price. It is really simple.

Peter_Spaeth · #7 10-18-2019, 11:40 AM

Typical female wasting money on nonsense.

frankbmd · #8 10-18-2019, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

It has been done before back in the day and in the works now for sure. We had a big discussion on it here and clearly it will not give you advance rates as high as liquid investments can. You can borrow in the range of 75% against many traded securities and I would think somewhere in the 30% to 40% range is the most anyone should consider on cards.

I am going to give you an analogy that is more appropriate here. My wife is into purses. She has seven or eight Chanel's, a bunch of Gucci's, some Yves Saint Laurent and a few others. Quite a pricey collection of purses. A purse has one function and that is to carry things but the prices of these purses are predicated on scarcity and bragging rights. You would think these would be a enough but she wants a Hermes Birkin bag. These are the most scarce of designer bags and you can't just go into a store and buy one. They have to ask you if you want one and it is hard to have that happen. Which one of these sells for the most? The Birkin naturally because it has the ultimate bragging rights. This is just how the world works. We don't make the rules. Once cards are elevated to elite hobby status symbols they can take on a mind of their own in terms of price. It is really simple.

I'm glad your wife has enough purses to make a cash purchase of the Jeter card.

You're certainly entitled to your opinions.

Fuddjcal · #9 10-19-2019, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankbmd

I'm glad your wife has enough purses to make a cash purchase of the Jeter card.

You're certainly entitled to your opinions.

That's Ironic. We were evacuated due to wildfires last week and my wife was packed in 3 minutes...All she took was her 10 Louis Vuitton purses.

Yes, I left the FAKE baseball cards behind.

samosa4u · #10 10-18-2019, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I am going to give you an analogy that is more appropriate here. My wife is into purses. She has seven or eight Chanel's, a bunch of Gucci's, some Yves Saint Laurent and a few others. Quite a pricey collection of purses. A purse has one function and that is to carry things but the prices of these purses are predicated on scarcity and bragging rights. You would think these would be a enough but she wants a Hermes Birkin bag. These are the most scarce of designer bags and you can't just go into a store and buy one. They have to ask you if you want one and it is hard to have that happen. Which one of these sells for the most? The Birkin naturally because it has the ultimate bragging rights. This is just how the world works. We don't make the rules. Once cards are elevated to elite hobby status symbols they can take on a mind of their own in terms of price. It is really simple.

https://www.malleries.com/hermes-bir...-293984-s-2907

Crazy sh*t! What grade do you think PSA would give it?

Dpeck100 · #11 10-18-2019, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samosa4u

https://www.malleries.com/hermes-bir...-293984-s-2907

Crazy sh*t! What grade do you think PSA would give it?

They go for much more than this in some cases.

These and a Chanel are actually bought for investment purposes in some cases.

Just like a hot car you can flip them for more than the price in the store and they do hold great residual value.

Edit: check this one out. They go for up to 150k but this is the highest sale I could find on EBAY.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hermes-Birk...wAAOSwQFJaxrLp

samosa4u · #12 10-18-2019, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

To each his own, but the fact that a company intentionally printed only 10 or 5 or 1 of a card in an attempt to CREATE a valuable -- like the golden ticket in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory -- means nothing to me.

Well, the Golden Ticket means everything to me! I would love to pull one out of those delicious-tasting chocolate bars and have the opportunity to meet Mr. Wonka!

pokerplyr80 · #13 10-18-2019, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

To each his own, but the fact that a company intentionally printed only 10 or 5 or 1 of a card in an attempt to CREATE a valuable -- like the golden ticket in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory -- means nothing to me.

I see your point, but in an era of over production a few issues stand out for one reason or another. Cards that were hard to track down even back then. I remember opening 93 finest packs trying to find refractors. And 96 select certified hoping for a mirror red, blue, or gold.

I didn't collect basketball back then, but those PMG cards fall into the same category. 91 topps desert shield seem to be hot as well.

I think as guys around my age who collected as kids in the 90s and remember these cards get back into the hobby demand will only increase.

Peter_Spaeth · #14 10-18-2019, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I see your point, but in an era of over production a few issues stand out for one reason or another. Cards that were hard to track down even back then. I remember opening 93 finest packs trying to find refractors. And 96 select certified hoping for a mirror red, blue, or gold.

I didn't collect basketball back then, but those PMG cards fall into the same category. 91 topps desert shield seem to be hot as well.

I think as guys around my age who collected as kids in the 90s and remember these cards get back into the hobby demand will only increase.

I get the appeal of the refractors, which I think were the first cards to use that technology, but from that point of view rather than scarcity. The certified mirrors just seem a copycat to me.

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