Outed cards, now including a 130K gain on an Aaron rookie

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Yet on the other concurrent thread concerning the crack out and return of the GAI Card, everyone automatically seems to believe PSA is right and GAI was wrong. After thousands of concrete examples of egregious PSA mistakes, the assumption is still that PSA is infallible somehow. Explains a lot about the hoards of sheep in submission lines, and high prices still being realized in PWCC Auctions.

Missing an alteration is a lot more common, and understandable, than identifying an alteration that isn't there.

PSA had every incentive to grade that $5,000 Gehrig with a number, and charge the corresponding grading fee. They saw something significant enough wrong with the card that they passed up that grading fee.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Missing an alteration is a lot more common, and understandable, than identifying an alteration that isn't there.

PSA had every incentive to grade that $5,000 Gehrig with a number, and charge the corresponding grading fee. They saw something significant enough wrong with the card that they passed up that grading fee.

I thought you pay for the review irrespective of the result.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I thought you pay for the review irrespective of the result.

So it cost the buyer the price of getting a $5,000 dollar asset graded, so he could learn the asset was doctored, and worth only a small fraction of that? And PSA still didn't re-slab it?

I've never had an asset graded by any TPG so I'm just asking because I don't know how it works. I assumed the grading fee correlated to the actual value of the asset.

[Johnny630]

Sadly everything to me is baked in........except it or move on seems to be the theme of the industry/hobby............I’m totally in a seemingly endlessly melancholy state in terms of the hobby.

It’s sad......

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Mark17

I assumed the grading fee correlated to the actual value of the asset.

Usually yes, but if you submit at a high price level and the card is found to be counterfeit, PSA doesn't refund you anything. If the card was submitted at a cheap level and then garners a grade making it worth a lot, they will contact the submitter and charge more for the submission after the fact.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Usually yes, but if you submit at a high price level and the card is found to be counterfeit, PSA doesn't refund you anything. If the card was submitted at a cheap level and then garners a grade making it worth a lot, they will contact the submitter and charge more for the submission after the fact.

Thanks for the info!

So, regarding the other concurrent thread, a buyer pays over $5k for a card graded 7, he then presumably pays the PSA fee to confirm authenticity/altered status/regrade, discovers it has been doctored, and returns the card (without the deceptive - worse than worthless - GAI holder.) It seems to me that the buyer really came out on the short end, losing those PSA fees.

And the seller receives his card back, along with info PSA determined, without having to pay PSA for it.

Ordinarily I would say the seller received a free review of his card and should appreciate that, but of course I understand, since the news from PSA was bad, it was news the seller did not want to hear. And since the card is now out of the GAI holder, its doctored status can no longer be hidden.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Mark17

So, regarding the other concurrent thread, a buyer pays over $5k for a card graded 7, he then presumably pays the PSA fee to confirm authenticity/altered status/regrade, discovers it has been doctored, and returns the card (without the deceptive - worse than worthless - GAI holder.) It seems to me that the buyer really came out on the short end, losing those PSA fees.

Well, both the buyer and seller are theoretically harmed by the decision. One is out cash, one is out an item in original condition. That's why PSA and other grading services have the ability to review the card while still in the holder, and only crack it out if the requested grade is met.

The buyer is trying to have it both ways here. They bought a card, and cracked it out to send to PSA raw. This should invalidate the return process since the card is no longer in the condition it was sold in; that's the risk that comes from cracking a card out. PSA's determination of minsize or alteration is their opinion, effectively. The seller should have never clicked on the button to accept the refund request.

Now the owner of the cracked out card cannot return it down the line, and is stuck with a loss through no fault of their own (presuming they purchased it in good faith).

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Now the owner of the cracked out card cannot return it down the line, and is stuck with a loss through no fault of their own (presuming they purchased it in good faith).

Right. There is definitely a loss involved here, and I think both buyer and seller are innocent of any wrongdoing. Somebody a long time ago, when GAI was still in business, snuck a doctored card through and got it slabbed a 7, and that person (or GAI's poor abilities) is at fault.

The only question really is, who takes the hit? The guy who was cheated originally (the seller) or the guy who paid his own money to PSA to uncover the fraud (the buyer.)

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Usually yes, but if you submit at a high price level and the card is found to be counterfeit, PSA doesn't refund you anything. If the card was submitted at a cheap level and then garners a grade making it worth a lot, they will contact the submitter and charge more for the submission after the fact.

AND that's a scam in it's own right, IMHO.

[drcy]

I've pondered if collectors (for those who do) accept altered cards that are mislabeled, how can they turn around and argue they should that they should be refunded for a card that is misidentified (fake labeled as authentic)?

[Johnny630]

I think everything is baked in now.....all the information is readily available for everyone. I see nothing changing we will see the same mantra.....be careful whom you buy from, buy from trusted reputable guys only...buy the card not the holder ect.....many people could care less if their card/cards are altered as long as they're in that almighty NB Slab all is cool to them.

Idk...It's very weird logic doesn't define reality ........above is my reality of this situation