Outed cards, now including a 130K gain on an Aaron rookie

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by perezfan

We are indeed tired and frustrated, yes...

But we also realize it takes more time for this to fully play out. I personally don't want the FBI to make snap decisions to include a few slaps on the wrist. I'm hoping they conduct a deep and involved investigation, in which all the connected dealers, card doctors and TPGs are identified, exposed to the public, put out of business, and punished accordingly.

The deeper they investigate, the more likely it is that they'll find the damning evidence they need to convict. New fraud and corruption is turning up every single day. So it's probably a good thing that this is dragging on.

Mark I hope you’re right sir ! You’re much more optimistic then me on how we see this all playing out. Everything is fake to me....the sales...the registry....and most definitely hundreds of thousands of cards with grades that are doctored.

[perezfan]

The optimism is probably indeed futile. But I still think it’s ridiculous to expect finality on the part of law enforcement anytime soon. It should take a larger chunk of time for them to sort this out. Perhaps nothing will come of it, and this is all just wishful thinking. Hope that’s not the case.

And I do agree with you about everything being fake. Fake grades, fake registries, and fake trust.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by perezfan

The optimism is probably indeed futile. But I still think it’s ridiculous to expect finality on the part of law enforcement anytime soon. It should take a larger chunk of time for them to sort this out. Perhaps nothing will come of it, and this is all just wishful thinking. Hope that’s not the case.

And I do agree with you about everything being fake. Fake grades, fake registries, and fake trust.

Right now people are sliding in 'perhaps nothing will come of it', now that its about 8 or so months later. I would think if there are criminal transactions going on over and over the authorities dont sit and wait for every last one to be discovered. Usually I would think some arrests are made to help find out more info and follow the money/work up the chain. I wouldnt expect finality but i would of expected something.

However if there are no 'victims' at least victims to an extent someone would file lawsuit over and not enough damages at issue (i dont think fbi are brought in for 200 bucks etc) i dont think anything will be done.

Everyone was jumping on me for saying nothing was done a month after all of this..now we are at 9 months?, what about after 2 years.....sooner or later time has to be an issue...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Right now people are sliding in 'perhaps nothing will come of it', now that its about 8 or so months later. I would think if there are criminal transactions going on over and over the authorities dont sit and wait for every last one to be discovered. Usually I would think some arrests are made to help find out more info and follow the money/work up the chain. I wouldnt expect finality but i would of expected something.

However if there are no 'victims' at least victims to an extent someone would file lawsuit over and not enough damages at issue (i dont think fbi are brought in for 200 bucks etc) i dont think anything will be done.

Everyone was jumping on me for saying nothing was done a month after all of this..now we are at 9 months?, what about after 2 years.....sooner or later time has to be an issue...

How would you know what the FBI is and isn't doing?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How would you know what the FBI is and isn't doing?

Of course dont know what is going on behind the scenes. i am just saying there are no arrests, if we hear of no arrests in 2 years, i can give an opinion that there appear to be no arrests in 2 years ...

6 years from now will i still be asked about what do i know what the FBI is doing?.

i still wont know especially if there is no announcement of any arrest in the hobby ..

if you heard about an arrest i stand corrected..

[Johnny630]

In my mind irregardless of what the authorities uncover and or prosecute it’s already all out there, everyone has all the information to make an informed decision based upon the facts and evidence already discovered. No matter what happens in regards to prosecution or lack there of is going to change my mind, it’s made up. To Me It’s all priced in. This hobby/industry has survived all the scummy past wrong doings and it will survive this one as well.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

In my mind irregardless of what the authorities uncover and or prosecute it’s already all out there, everyone has all the information to make an informed decision based upon the facts and evidence already discovered. No matter what happens in regards to prosecution or lack there of is going to change my mind, it’s made up. To Me It’s all priced in. This hobby/industry has survived all the scummy past wrong doings and it will survive this one as well.

right, another post saying theres a chance nothing is going to happen. People have said its rocked the hobby, my whole point of all my posts as this did not rock the hobby for all the reasons i have stated

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

In my mind irregardless of what the authorities uncover and or prosecute it’s already all out there, everyone has all the information to make an informed decision based upon the facts and evidence already discovered. No matter what happens in regards to prosecution or lack there of is going to change my mind, it’s made up. To Me It’s all priced in. This hobby/industry has survived all the scummy past wrong doings and it will survive this one as well.

Who is "everyone"? The fact that (i) people who read this Board or (ii) registry collectors who are incentivized not to do anything to reduce the confidence the hobby has in slabbed cards may possess this information does not predict how the next generation of collectors will view TPGs. And it is those collectors who will be the ultimate deciders of whether slabbed cards hold their value.

I already know deep-pocketed investors who considered investing in high grade slabbed vintage cards but who backed off due to the info that has been coming out over the past several months. I don't believe anybody can predict with much certainty how this will play out over the coming months/years, except to say that in my experience eventually the market absorbs into its pricing the reality of what something is.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

In my mind irregardless of what the authorities uncover and or prosecute it’s already all out there, everyone has all the information to make an informed decision based upon the facts and evidence already discovered. No matter what happens in regards to prosecution or lack there of is going to change my mind, it’s made up. To Me It’s all priced in. This hobby/industry has survived all the scummy past wrong doings and it will survive this one as well.

Agree with Corey on the "everyone" component of this statement...

I think it's still just the opposite. I would bet that less than 5% of active card collectors frequent net54 and other forums. And I'd bet that less than 10% of the buying/submitting public is aware of what has taken place. Most probably suspect that a few altered cards have snuck through, but have no idea of the extent, or the iron-clad "before and after" evidence.

Not sure if the word will ever spread to an actual majority of collectors, but I suppose time will tell.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Right now people are sliding in 'perhaps nothing will come of it', now that its about 8 or so months later. I would think if there are criminal transactions going on over and over the authorities dont sit and wait for every last one to be discovered. Usually I would think some arrests are made to help find out more info and follow the money/work up the chain. I wouldnt expect finality but i would of expected something.

However if there are no 'victims' at least victims to an extent someone would file lawsuit over and not enough damages at issue (i dont think fbi are brought in for 200 bucks etc) i dont think anything will be done.

Everyone was jumping on me for saying nothing was done a month after all of this..now we are at 9 months?, what about after 2 years.....sooner or later time has to be an issue...

You don't arrest people you think have information, you subpoena them. That's been done.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You don't arrest people you think have information, you subpoena them. That's been done.

Right but you also do arrest people and get more information as well if you have enough to arrest.....its not unheard of to get more info from underlings to work your way up.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Right but you also do arrest people and get more information as well if you have enough to arrest.....its not unheard of to get more info from underlings to work your way up.

Why don't you call Brian then and suggest he arrest some graders?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Why don't you call Brian then and suggest he arrest some graders?

some sellers on ebay should be arrested at their list sale price..