Outed cards, now including a 130K gain on an Aaron rookie

[Peter_Spaeth]

So here's a question for discussion -- what, if anything, are people doing differently in light of the scandal? How are you attempting to protect yourself against altered cards?

[Leon]

I am passing on my favorite card in the hobby in a 7 holder because of f'd up looking top and bottom borders. As Scott B and I just spoke about at a local card show, KNOW the cards and their characteristics. If it looks short with pointy borders, even if in a TPG holder, pass. SO the lesson is KNOW your cards and its series characteristics. IF you see an E220 with almost no borders, it is trimmed...tpg or not. Same with others. If you see 2 (or more) short borders and especially if they are pointy cornered cards....run away and fast.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So here's a question for discussion -- what, if anything, are people doing differently in light of the scandal? How are you attempting to protect yourself against altered cards?

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So here's a question for discussion -- what, if anything, are people doing differently in light of the scandal? How are you attempting to protect yourself against altered cards?

That's a good question. One thing I am thinking on is provenance. Most of my slabs are self-submitted cards and I am preserving the records of those submissions for future resale. Art is often tracked through its owners, so why not top cards? We already have provenance of specific finds on flips (e.g., Black Swamp, Lionel Carter, etc.). That should be more common. If I know the submitter as trustworthy, that should provide a great deal of confidence.

[Peter_Spaeth]

My own system (for PSA cards anyhow) makes me wonder if it's even worth it, it's such a PITA.

1. If offered by certain sellers, stop right there.
2. If serial number on PSA website shows first sale by certain sellers, stop right there.
3. Review scan thoroughly and if any doubt, pass.
4. If significant card, ask a couple of people whose opinions I value.
5. If still in the game at that point, check my spreadsheet of outed cards to see if in range suggesting it's likely from the same sub. If yes, probably stop or at least look into surrounding certs for anything suspicious.
6. Even if not in range of any outed card, if significant card, check surrounding certs for anything suspicious.

Ridiculous it's come to this.

[Johnny630]

I’ve been saying this for over a year now.....It’s much better for me to be card/slabbed card less then cash less. I could care less if I missed any upside....My personal opinion is everything is priced in and topped out if I miss it so be it I do not like this market’s current state one bit.....it’s much better to have cash on the sidelines then any slabs.

[Johnny630]

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=243

I find REA To have the most integrity of all major/large auction houses.

Everyone is criticizing them with having graded altered cards....why isn’t anyone placing blame/criticizing PSA.


PSA hasn’t had to answer for anything .....it’s a double standard and total BS

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Everyone is criticizing them with having graded altered cards....why isn’t anyone placing blame/criticizing PSA.

I think one or two people here have criticized PSA......

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=243

I find REA To have the most integrity of all major/large auction houses.

Everyone is criticizing them with having graded altered cards....why isn’t anyone placing blame/criticizing PSA.


PSA hasn’t had to answer for anything .....it’s a double standard and total BS

REA is definitely one of the best out there...but it's at the point where there are so many altered cards in slabs that practically every big auction is apt to feature known altered cards in very auction from this point forward.

So aside from stating in the auction listing that card is suspected/shown to be altered so bid accordingly...I'm not sure what could be done.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

REA is definitely one of the best out there...but it's at the point where there are so many altered cards in slabs that practically every big auction is apt to feature known altered cards in very auction from this point forward.

So aside from stating in the auction listing that card is suspected/shown to be altered so bid accordingly...I'm not sure what could be done.

I don't believe that REA is turning a blind eye to or knowingly selling altered cards. I thought the criticism on the thread was a bit harsh/premature as Brian hasn't had a chance to respond yet.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=243

I find REA To have the most integrity of all major/large auction houses.

Everyone is criticizing them with having graded altered cards....why isn’t anyone placing blame/criticizing PSA.


PSA hasn’t had to answer for anything .....it’s a double standard and total BS

REA has taken down the cards at issue as well as a PSA 7 Leaf DiMaggio that was outed as recolored. Another day in the hobby. Good luck finding high grade unaltered Leafs.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

REA has taken down the cards at issue as well as a PSA 7 Leaf DiMaggio that was outed as recolored. Another day in the hobby. Good luck finding high grade unaltered Leafs.

Moral to this story PSA is worthless

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

My own system (for PSA cards anyhow) makes me wonder if it's even worth it, it's such a PITA.

1. If offered by certain sellers, stop right there.
2. If serial number on PSA website shows first sale by certain sellers, stop right there.
3. Review scan thoroughly and if any doubt, pass.
4. If significant card, ask a couple of people whose opinions I value.
5. If still in the game at that point, check my spreadsheet of outed cards to see if in range suggesting it's likely from the same sub. If yes, probably stop or at least look into surrounding certs for anything suspicious.
6. Even if not in range of any outed card, if significant card, check surrounding certs for anything suspicious.

Ridiculous it's come to this.

This is way too much work to qualify as a hobby for me. Hats off to you Peter.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

This is way too much work to qualify as a hobby for me. Hats off to you Peter.

Yeah, it's edging closer to just being ruined. The lack of any meaningful response from the TPG's is probably going to be the final straw at some point.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yeah, it's edging closer to just being ruined. The lack of any meaningful response from the TPG's is probably going to be the final straw at some point.

For us hard core collectors it is ruined. PSA doesn’t care one bit about it being destroyed for us. All they care about is free flow and easy money to be made by the trimming/altering organization many of which has been outed by blowout.

Unfortunately I see nothing changing people are addicted to the slab they either don’t know or don’t care....it’s all a crying shame. Grading was supposed to give a buyer Confidence and Peace of Mind when purchasing a expensive card....all it seems to do now is facilitate the bad actors.

What a disgrace

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

For us hard core collectors it is ruined. PSA doesn’t care one bit about it being destroyed for us. All they care about is free flow and easy money to be made by the trimming/altering organization many of which has been outed by blowout.

Unfortunately I see nothing changing people are addicted to the slab they either don’t know or don’t care....it’s all a crying shame. Grading was supposed to give a buyer Confidence and Peace of Mind when purchasing a expensive card....all it seems to do now is facilitate the bad actors.

What a disgrace

In hindsight, maybe the Harris Collection should have been more of a wakeup call than it was. That said, and maybe my perception is just skewed because it's easier for BODA to find more recent grades than older grades, but it seems the incompetence/corruption/whatever you want to call it has really accelerated in recent years.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So here's a question for discussion -- what, if anything, are people doing differently in light of the scandal? How are you attempting to protect yourself against altered cards?

Buying raw, low grade. Doing my own research on provenance. Since May have stopped buying graded cards, except low grade and low value, unless there is collection provenance. Won’t collect based on TPG card grade again until someone builds a better mousetrap, including transparency and traceability.