What Would You Do With This Forum Transaction?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Agree.

He also doesn't have any new information that he didn't have when the deal was made. No TPG has given an opinion other than the original numeric grade. Not saying that matters much. But it's like the guy is saying, basically, "Hey, it took me 4 years to actually look at this card I bought, and now I think it looks a bit small, so I'm not sure I'm happy with the deal.

There are at least 3 reasons no return should be accepted, including:
1. Card not in original slab
2. Way too long
3. No real reason - nothing has changed except the reholder


Any one of these reasons by itself is enough to tell the buyer (complainer) that there will be no return or exchange IMO.

I can't believe you posted the bold part after all you posted in the GAI thread.

[Buythatcard]

What if I sold a card as Altered 4 years ago and the buyer decided to send it in to another grading company and it comes back with a numerical grade? Suppose I only sold it for $50.00, and now its worth $500 in the graded slab, am I entitled to a refund from the buyer?

I would think not. Just as I think that this buyer has no right to go after the seller after 4 years.

[Johnny630]

How about just move on and be happy :-) life is to short. You win some you lose some that’s all. Be happy

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

How about just move on and be happy :-) life is to short. You win some you lose some that’s all. Be happy

exactly...again...everyone has to "win" all the time! WTF happened to you win some you lose some. I've sold a handful of cards over the years deemed AUTHENTIC by usually SGC...at a minimal price on the BST only to show up in a PSA holder shortly thereafter at a pretty high grade for the issue....only to sell at multiples of what I sold for.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

exactly...again...everyone has to "win" all the time! WTF happened to you win some you lose some. I've sold a handful of cards over the years deemed AUTHENTIC by usually SGC...at a minimal price on the BST only to show up in a PSA holder shortly thereafter at a pretty high grade for the issue....only to sell at multiples of what I sold for.

Right just like when they wanna buy a card they beat the seller down will Never pay asking price even if it’s very fair. Then it’s vice versa when they wanna sell they want every last penny out of their card. It never changes with some people. They have to feel like they win, you’re correct.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Right just like when they wanna buy a card they beat the seller down will Never pay asking price even if it’s very fair. Then it’s vice versa when they wanna sell they want every last penny out of their card. It never changes with some people. They have to feel like they win, you’re correct.

Hey, if you don't like selling, buying and trading with me just stop doing it and quit complaining.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Hey, if you don't like selling and buying from me just stop doing it and quit complaining.

Exactly geez life is to short it’s comical really.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I can't believe you posted the bold part after all you posted in the GAI thread.

Bart,
In the last thread, due mostly to some of Peter's reasoning, I came around to the point of view that if people could crack out cards then return them, it would create way too many problems going forward.

You might've had me blocked by then...

In this case, the guy has PSA saying the card is good, so he has even less of a case. Plus, of course, the time elapsed.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Bart,
In the last thread, due mostly to some of Peter's reasoning, I came around to the point of view that if people could crack out cards then return them, it would create way too many problems going forward.

You might've had me blocked by then...

In this case, the guy has PSA saying the card is good, so he has even less of a case. Plus, of course, the time elapsed.

Glad to see you came around.

LOL, I don't block anybody. Even the complete idiots(not referring to you) on here make great posts once in a while.

I took it the card was just sent in to fix the mistake on the flip without a review.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I took it the card was just sent in to fix the mistake on the flip without a review.

Right but the original PSA opinion was that it deserved a grade, so there was no (try not to laugh) "professional" opinion otherwise.

[seanofjapan]

This raises a good question about what the informal "statute of limitations" is on claims related to transactions here and perhaps setting out a definite time limit for all transactions would be helpful.

4 1/2 years is just way too long. The time frame for claims should reflect a reasonable amount of time that the buyer has to assess an item, balanced against the seller's desire for some finality.

At most this should take months (give a buyer some time to examine it, send it in to a grader and receive their grade if they want, show it to some friends etc, also maybe factoring in a few weeks grace period since not everyone has the time to do that right away), not years.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by seanofjapan

This raises a good question about what the informal "statute of limitations" is on claims related to transactions here and perhaps setting out a definite time limit for all transactions would be helpful.

4 1/2 years is just way too long. The time frame for claims should reflect a reasonable amount of time that the buyer has to assess an item, balanced against the seller's desire for some finality.

At most this should take months (give a buyer some time to examine it, send it in to a grader and receive their grade if they want, show it to some friends etc, also maybe factoring in a few weeks grace period since not everyone has the time to do that right away), not years.

Soooooo... With PSA’s awesome turnaround times and expertise on the subject...is 7 months what youre suggesting?

[doug.goodman]

Let's remember that the people who get paid for their opinions have had the card in question in their hands - TWICE.

The attached picture has nothing to do with the card in question, I just like to post it.

Doug

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by seanofjapan

This raises a good question about what the informal "statute of limitations" is on claims related to transactions here and perhaps setting out a definite time limit for all transactions would be helpful.

4 1/2 years is just way too long. The time frame for claims should reflect a reasonable amount of time that the buyer has to assess an item, balanced against the seller's desire for some finality.

At most this should take months (give a buyer some time to examine it, send it in to a grader and receive their grade if they want, show it to some friends etc, also maybe factoring in a few weeks grace period since not everyone has the time to do that right away), not years.

Why does a buyer need months to assess a card? When I buy a card I assess it in 15 minutes. If subsequently it turns out it's no good, absent some intentional fraud, I view that as on me.

(If a guarantee a card will grade is part of the deal, I would view it differently. But that's something that needs to be clear up front.)

[Neal]

Unless completely misrepresented in the listing or damaged in transit, a seller should not be held responsible for any refund. Just my opinion.

[slightlyrounded]

Brings me back to that old Russian saying: “Trust, but wait half a decade to verify”

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Neal

Unless completely misrepresented in the listing or damaged in transit, a seller should not be held responsible for any refund. Just my opinion.

I want to return the Johnston Cookies Aaron I bought from you 5 years ago.

[seanofjapan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Why does a buyer need months to assess a card? When I buy a card I assess it in 15 minutes. If subsequently it turns out it's no good, absent some intentional fraud, I view that as on me.

(If a guarantee a card will grade is part of the deal, I would view it differently. But that's something that needs to be clear up front.)

The starting point of the debate was whether 4.5 years was too much, so I was simply arguing that it should be much less than that and "months" would be a maximum, not necessarily the ideal.

I don' t think 15 minutes is a reasonable standard since we're talking about the entire transaction, not just how long it takes someone to look at a card. You gotta give the postal system some time to deliver the card and the person a reasonable amount of time given what might be a busy schedule to actually open it up and examine it.

Also with higher value transactions at least I think its reasonable to factor in some time for the buyer to submit it to PSA or whatever and if a card they bought advertised as Nrmt or whatever comes back "Altered" they should be entitled to raise a claim for that provided they do so in a reasonable amount of time (taking into consideration postal times, whatever the grading company takes, etc).

I don't know, am I wrong about this? I've never made a high value transaction so I have no idea what the expectations are.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by seanofjapan

The starting point of the debate was whether 4.5 years was too much, so I was simply arguing that it should be much less than that and "months" would be a maximum, not necessarily the ideal.

I don' t think 15 minutes is a reasonable standard since we're talking about the entire transaction, not just how long it takes someone to look at a card. You gotta give the postal system some time to deliver the card and the person a reasonable amount of time given what might be a busy schedule to actually open it up and examine it.

Also with higher value transactions at least I think its reasonable to factor in some time for the buyer to submit it to PSA or whatever and if a card they bought advertised as Nrmt or whatever comes back "Altered" they should be entitled to raise a claim for that provided they do so in a reasonable amount of time (taking into consideration postal times, whatever the grading company takes, etc).

I don't know, am I wrong about this? I've never made a high value transaction so I have no idea what the expectations are.

It seems to me if a buyer wants a right of return contingent on the outcome of a third party grader's opinion, he should negotiate it up front along with a time frame.

[icurnmedic]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Why does a buyer need months to assess a card? When I buy a card I assess it in 15 minutes. If subsequently it turns out it's no good, absent some intentional fraud, I view that as on me.

(If a guarantee a card will grade is part of the deal, I would view it differently. But that's something that needs to be clear up front.)

I agree with this, probably on my own island on this , but I feel a week AFTER the buyer receives the card is more than enough time to finalize the transaction. I as a seller am not entitled to Buy a Card back I might have regretted selling.

[chalupacollects]

ummm 4.50 years to return something no way... I don't think Target or Kohl's would even go that far...Personally 90 days max should be sufficient to open the mail look at the cards and send for grading under a quicker turnaround if that is the issue...

[seanofjapan]

Originally Posted by icurnmedic

I agree with this, probably on my own island on this , but I feel a week AFTER the buyer receives the card is more than enough time to finalize the transaction. I as a seller am not entitled to Buy a Card back I might have regretted selling.

Yes, but as a seller you don’t have to worry about the cash you received not being as described. I think its reasonable to give the buyer a bit of time to check the card to verify it.