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  #1  
Old 12-20-2019, 01:26 PM
Republicaninmass Republicaninmass is offline
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Is there a prize for the most people posting a row on one's ignore list?
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  #2  
Old 12-20-2019, 01:30 PM
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perezfan perezfan is offline
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I'd consider it a badge of honor to be on that list.
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  #3  
Old 12-20-2019, 01:32 PM
Republicaninmass Republicaninmass is offline
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I'd consider it a badge of honor to be on that list.


Not quite there yet!
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  #4  
Old 12-20-2019, 01:36 PM
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  #5  
Old 12-20-2019, 02:11 PM
jasonkaiser25 jasonkaiser25 is offline
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Just a question out of curiosity.... Obviously almost everyone agrees that selling a card that has been altered without disclosing it is wrong. Do you think that if you have a card that has been graded and you crack it out of the slab and sell it raw that you have an obligation to disclose what the grade was?
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  #6  
Old 12-20-2019, 02:16 PM
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perezfan perezfan is offline
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Originally Posted by jasonkaiser25 View Post
Just a question out of curiosity.... Obviously almost everyone agrees that selling a card that has been altered without disclosing it is wrong. Do you think that if you have a card that has been graded and you crack it out of the slab and sell it raw that you have an obligation to disclose what the grade was?
Only if you know it's altered.

Otherwise, no obligation, as it's just arbitrary anyway. The buyer of the card can just judge it for themselves. No "expert opinion" or randomly assigned number is necessary!
Last edited by perezfan; 12-20-2019 at 02:18 PM.
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  #7  
Old 12-20-2019, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonkaiser25 View Post
Just a question out of curiosity.... Obviously almost everyone agrees that selling a card that has been altered without disclosing it is wrong. Do you think that if you have a card that has been graded and you crack it out of the slab and sell it raw that you have an obligation to disclose what the grade was?
A seller should give honest, informed information and represent the card accurately to the buyer. As grading is subjective and sometimes wrong and buyers often pick cards that are wrongly graded, that doesn't make disclosing the previous professional grade required. But a seller knows what information is and is not relevant and important that should be disclosed.


If you're selling "as looks like Mint" an ExMt card that was previously graded as ExMt that's deceptive, but that's so misrepresenting the card whether or not one should disclose the professional grade.
Last edited by drcy; 12-20-2019 at 02:26 PM.
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  #8  
Old 12-20-2019, 02:40 PM
Promethius88 Promethius88 is offline
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Originally Posted by drcy View Post
A seller should give honest, informed information and represent the card accurately to the buyer. As grading is subjective and sometimes wrong and buyers often pick cards that are wrongly graded, that doesn't make disclosing the previous professional grade required. But a seller knows what information is and is not relevant and important that should be disclosed.


If you're selling "as looks like Mint" an ExMt card that was previously graded as ExMt that's deceptive, but that's so misrepresenting the card whether or not one should disclose the professional grade.
I see plenty of people selling cards on websites, ah's, Ebay and even here that will say something to the effect of "looks better than the grade". As you noted, grading is subjective so if Joe Blow pulls a card that was ExMt from a slab and advertises it as "looks like mint", maybe it does. As long as it has a good, quality picture, the buyer should make that determination. We push the saying "buy the slab and not the holder". I never hear someone have a slabbed card in a 7 advertise it as "Well, it's in a 7 holder but only looks like a 4 to me".
I agree with you that as a seller I want to be as accurate and up front as I possibly can be with any card that leaves my possession because that it my name, my reputation on the line.
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  #9  
Old 12-22-2019, 06:29 AM
bxb bxb is offline
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OK, went through my collection for the first time in a while.

Is it my imagination, or does half my collection in TPG holders look slightly trimmed?

This thread is messing with my head...
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  #10  
Old 12-22-2019, 01:55 PM
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OK, went through my collection for the first time in a while.

Is it my imagination, or does half my collection in TPG holders look slightly trimmed?

This thread is messing with my head...
Half sounds about right. Doesn't matter what grade, high, mid or low. Best of luck to you, as you dig deeper into it.

And to all others in the same boat... do not hesitate to send them back to PSA, and make them live up to their supposed "guarantee". Given their continued denial and arrogance, they should not be allowed to sweep this under the rug!
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  #11  
Old 12-22-2019, 03:24 PM
cardsagain74 cardsagain74 is offline
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Half sounds about right. Doesn't matter what grade, high, mid or low.
This sounds fairly exaggerated to me. Even with all the fraud being uncovered and with how there are more midgrade '50s superstar cards on the BODA list than would've been expected, it's still hard to imagine that half of all graded cards in existence have been altered.

There is way too much mediocre low-mid graded stuff out there for that, especially in the countless spots where a minor alteration would only be improving a $60 card into a $100 one.

I'd have to think that when it comes to the post WW2 stuff, the bulk of the issue would still be around grade 6-7 and up. Obviously anything earlier 20th century is a different ballgame
Last edited by cardsagain74; 12-22-2019 at 03:29 PM.
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  #12  
Old 12-20-2019, 05:12 PM
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Is there a prize for the most people posting a row on one's ignore list?
Hi Ted.

Now if someone will quote this Ted can see it.
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  #13  
Old 12-20-2019, 05:43 PM
Johnny630 Johnny630 is offline
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Does anyone see a good long term outlook of this?

For me it’s going to take Until most of the money comes out of all this.......

It’s all cyclical..........Here is what I see envisioning happening........

No TPG’s will be held accountable.....their options become less valuable......doesn’t matter my mind is made up, their complicit, extremely inept, and or way worse .......

No Trimmers will do jail time.......no auction houses will do jail time.....
Repeat cycle 10-15 years down the road
You can only polish a turd so long......it’s still and will always be a turd .....very said. Prayers for something positive in 2020 for this crooked industry
Last edited by Johnny630; 12-20-2019 at 05:46 PM.
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  #14  
Old 12-20-2019, 06:51 PM
Fuddjcal Fuddjcal is offline
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Hi Ted.

Now if someone will quote this Ted can see it.
I love Ted, such a kidder. double blocked. Rats
Last edited by Fuddjcal; 12-20-2019 at 06:54 PM.
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  #15  
Old 12-20-2019, 07:42 PM
Republicaninmass Republicaninmass is offline
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Hi Ted.

Now if someone will quote this Ted can see it.
No such luck
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  #16  
Old 12-20-2019, 07:45 PM
111gecko 111gecko is online now
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I believe the auction house/EBay shilling will be exposed and punished. Also, the IRS will get theirs on the trimming/kick backs etc. The rest...not so much. Just my thoughts.
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  #17  
Old 12-21-2019, 10:16 AM
Johnny630 Johnny630 is offline
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How’s CLCT since joes last conference earnings call?
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  #18  
Old 12-21-2019, 11:41 AM
Fuddjcal Fuddjcal is offline
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Originally Posted by 111gecko View Post
I believe the auction house/EBay shilling will be exposed and punished. Also, the IRS will get theirs on the trimming/kick backs etc. The rest...not so much. Just my thoughts.
To me, the easiest case to make against all these losers is that they avoided their income tax. Sort of an Al Capone job. If they won't be able to get them on anything else, they always have that in their back pocket. Good times
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  #19  
Old 12-21-2019, 08:26 PM
steve B steve B is offline
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To me, the easiest case to make against all these losers is that they avoided their income tax. Sort of an Al Capone job. If they won't be able to get them on anything else, they always have that in their back pocket. Good times
How do you know they didn't claim the income and pay the taxes?
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  #20  
Old 12-21-2019, 08:32 PM
JackW JackW is offline
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He knows nothing.
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  #21  
Old 12-21-2019, 10:42 PM
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How do you know they didn't claim the income and pay the taxes?
Do most illegitimate businesses pay income taxes on their earnings? Just asking.
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  #22  
Old 12-22-2019, 09:55 AM
Fuddjcal Fuddjcal is offline
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How do you know they didn't claim the income and pay the taxes?
because crooked Fu**s, don't pay their taxes...I guarantee it PERIOD
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  #23  
Old 12-22-2019, 10:19 AM
japhi japhi is offline
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How do you know they didn't claim the income and pay the taxes?
I would bet a lot of money that cap gains taxes were not paid properly or at all on a lot of these sales. Not an expert in cap gains on US collectables but I’d suspect that the IRS would have a heyday with some of these dealers.
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