Prewar v. Postwar & Big Names...?

[DeanH3]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

For those of you who find most of your posts to be either on this section of the boards, or at least equally divided between prewar and postwar - this is a thread to discuss how you feel about “big name” cards from either era:

I occasionally wonder about my collection, as I realize from time to time that while I have a treasure trove of stars and HOF’ers from the 1950’s and later - the same is not true of my prewar collection. While I do have some type-stuff for prewar and a couple of nice cards here and there - yeah, there are no Goudey Ruth’s or T206’s Cobbs. The issue of how / if folks choose to afford these is what is intriguing to me at the moment. For some that predate my time in the hobby this will not apply, but I started collecting as a kid at age 9 in 1986, getting into “old” cards a few years after that. Old at the time meant anything from 1950 to 1980, generally. Basically I have always thought of the situation as me being priced out of “big name” prewar cards from the getgo. Yes, Goudey HOF’ers were much cheaper in the 1980’s and 90’s then they are today, but as a kid with a limited budget then, it was always relative. When I was a kid, one sometimes saw cards like that at shows, but for the most part, the multiple LCS’s in every town back then did not have a huge inventory of prewar cards. It was the ‘50s on with Mantle, Mays, Aaron, Koufax, Williams, etc. etc. that was most popular, so as a kid this is what I got into, despite a limited budget. Postwar will always be my first love because of this, and I’m fine with that - but every so often I get to daydreaming, and thoughts like “Well, I could sell these 4 or 5 cards here and probably afford a low grade Goudey Gehrig...” start creeping into my head. Funny enough I’ve never been able to pull the trigger in that vein, though. I think subconsciously at least for me, it’s the idea of a certain amount of $$ tied up in one card, or maybe a couple of cards, and what I am comfortable with. Even in lower grade, many of those marquee prewar names are going to be “comma cards” as I recently saw them referred to, insinuating that they are over $1,000. I’ve just never been able to go for that really. I have on rare occasions spent sums approaching that for a key postwar card, but most of my purchases are much smaller than that. A $100 card is still a big deal to me for postwar. Also another factor - not that I’m a condition snob, but I do like midgrade cards for postwar and not beaters. Doing this with prewar names is going to be virtually impossible on my budget, sans you seeing my face on the news for winning the latest Powerball. I guess the idea of spending that much on a card, and knowing it’s still apt to be creased or beat up is a turnoff for me - whether subconscious or not. I routinely find myself looking at T206 HOF’ers on eBay and thinking jeez, they want that much for a PSA 2?

All this to ask - thoughts? Have you been in this boat yourself? Have you ever liquidated a large postwar collection for prewar dollars or vice-versa? Were you happy with your decision?

An odd topic maybe, but this kind of thing intrigues me...

Happy New Year!
-John


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hi John,

Yes I have been exactly where you are now. I was lucky enough to pick up a bunch of my expensive cards years ago when they weren't as expensive. I have also sold many cards (post war) to fund pre-war purchases. My thought was the post war cards I'm selling would be easier to replace in the future. 50's HOF'ers don't seem to have the explosive price growth as pre-war. Therefore those cards shouldn't be a lot more expensive when I try and track them down in the future.

There have been a couple cards I've sold that I wish I hadn't (a really nice '48 leaf Jackie SGC 3 right before the huge price explosion) but overall there aren't many regrets. I think you would not regret selling some post-war and turning those into an iconic pre-war card of Ruth, Gehrig or Cobb etc. It will be tough deciding what to sell, but go through your cards and decide which ones you are willing to move and which ones you want to keep. Most post-war cards should be doable to replace. And don't worry to much about the grade of any iconic pre-war card. Many low grade examples have really nice eye appeal. I say go for it!!

And one final thought. I've been coming around full circle a bit. I've been buying more mid-grade Aaron, Koufax, Jackie and Clemente recently and have been enjoying hunting for really nice eye appeal examples. So once you get and iconic pre-war card, or two, you will be able to go back find those post-war gems when you decide the time is right.

Good luck John!

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by DeanH3

Hi John,

Yes I have been exactly where you are now. I was lucky enough to pick up a bunch of my expensive cards years ago when they weren't as expensive. I have also sold many cards (post war) to fund pre-war purchases. My thought was the post war cards I'm selling would be easier to replace in the future. 50's HOF'ers don't seem to have the explosive price growth as pre-war. Therefore those cards shouldn't be a lot more expensive when I try and track them down in the future.

There have been a couple cards I've sold that I wish I hadn't (a really nice '48 leaf Jackie SGC 3 right before the huge price explosion) but overall there aren't many regrets. I think you would not regret selling some post-war and turning those into an iconic pre-war card of Ruth, Gehrig or Cobb etc. It will be tough deciding what to sell, but go through your cards and decide which ones you are willing to move and which ones you want to keep. Most post-war cards should be doable to replace. And don't worry to much about the grade of any iconic pre-war card. Many low grade examples have really nice eye appeal. I say go for it!!

And one final thought. I've been coming around full circle a bit. I've been buying more mid-grade Aaron, Koufax, Jackie and Clemente recently and have been enjoying hunting for really nice eye appeal examples. So once you get and iconic pre-war card, or two, you will be able to go back find those post-war gems when you decide the time is right.

Good luck John!

Solid advice on how to do it, but I'm still not sold. Here would be an example for me right now...

Say I give up:

'68 Ryan RC SGC 5.5
'63 Rose RC PSA 5
'48 Leaf Ted Williams PSA 2.5
and maybe 2 midgrade Mantle base cards from the late 60's...

I get for that $$:

...a PSA 1 '33 Goudey Ruth. And like a beater 1, probably not a 1 with strong eye appeal.

That's not a trade I would come close to making today, I can tell you that for sure. I don't know. Maybe years or decades from now, if I want to get rid of a lot more smaller-priced postwar cards, or get just tired of them or something. But I haven't gotten tired of them in more than 30 years...

To me multiple nice, mid-grade postwar cards > 1 beater prewar legend. At least right now, anyway. I suppose I might could be convinced otherwise for a really eye-appealing low grade or altered card.

[jchcollins]

PS - I do have a vague memory of seeing a yellow '33 Goudey Ruth PSA 1 at a show probably 20 years ago, I think for like $900. At the time I was in my early 20's and thought good grief - that much just for a 1?

Silly me. Oh btw, I also once had an E92 Cy Young in EX condition that cost me "only" about $500. You guessed it, I was not smart enough to hold onto it...

[DeanH3]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Solid advice on how to do it, but I'm still not sold. Here would be an example for me right now...

Say I give up:

'68 Ryan RC SGC 5.5
'63 Rose RC PSA 5
'48 Leaf Ted Williams PSA 2.5
and maybe 2 midgrade Mantle base cards from the late 60's...

I get for that $$:

...a PSA 1 '33 Goudey Ruth. And like a beater 1, probably not a 1 with strong eye appeal.

That's not a trade I would come close to making today, I can tell you that for sure. I don't know. Maybe years or decades from now, if I want to get rid of a lot more smaller-priced postwar cards, or get just tired of them or something. But I haven't gotten tired of them in more than 30 years...

To me multiple nice, mid-grade postwar cards > 1 beater prewar legend. At least right now, anyway. I suppose I might could be convinced otherwise for a really eye-appealing low grade or altered card.

It's a tough decision for sure. You gotta do what makes you happy. But don't give up on the idea. You might be able to snag a nice eye appeal Goudey Gehrig. The cards in your example are great cards. However, I would guess they will be easier to replace down the line. Just a thought. Again, do what makes you happy. That's what this is all about. But, owning an iconic Ruth, Gehrig or Cobb, etc likely won't get any cheaper. Good luck John!

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by DeanH3

It's a tough decision for sure.

I would agree the prewar icons aren't getting any cheaper. Thanks again for the perspective. It would be much more doable if I could get comfortable with the idea of VG or lower for both prewar and postwar. I'm already there for the former, but not for 1950's and 60's cards. Not sure why that is, as Robert pointed out - as a 13 year-old in 1990, I was happy often even with creased-up postwar vintage star cards. I've seen other posts where people come full-circle, starting out collecting lower grade as a kid, moving up to nicer and even investment grade cards as adults when they have the money - and then later realizing they were just as happy with VG cards. I'm not there yet, although I have gone past the need to have PSA 7's or above in postwar vintage, realizing often times that I'm just as happy with a 4 or 5. We'll see, I guess.

[hcv123]

My focus for about 30 years had been postwar till I got my kids involved. To get them interested I had decided we would collect Pirate team sets from 1952-1973 (Clemente is the focus of my collection) which would include the early Topps sets through Clemente's last year of inclusion. After going to a bunch of card shows - my older son said "dad can we collect the old cigarette cards - they are really cool". I think my biggest hurdle was being very unfamiliar with all the nuances, pricing and variations in pre war - I didin't know the marketplace like I know post war. I used his request as an opportunity and quickly started learning. We now have a complete 33 Goudey Pirates set and are on our way with T206 (minus Wagner), T205, T207 and 1914-15 Cracker Jack. I have also decided that I really want to own a Ruth and Gehrigh card (maybe Cobb). I'm in no hurry, continue to watch the market and will pull the trigger when the time is right (right card for the right price).

Your question intimates that you don't put "new" money into cards as your example states you would sell off what you have for the potential new purchase? Is that true? If not, why not just save till you can buy the post war card (s) you speak of.
As others have mentioned numerous times - we should always collect what we enjoy! From your posts it sounds like you are enjoying post war right now a lot more than the thought of prewar.
Regarding grade - I echo the sentiment already expressed - eye appeal vs scarcity! In the case of certain rarities I am not very picky about condition. All of the cards you are speaking about are readily available any day of the week. I would hold out for one with great eye appeal - let the 3rd party grade be secondary - in the lower to mid grade ranges, Eye appeal varies widely!

Happy collecting

[Exhibitman]

I feel for the Millennials. I was lucky enough to become aware of vintage cards as a kid in the late 1970s and to go to shows every weekend and collect prewar cards in the early 1990s when I was just out of school, still living like a student, but had a job that left me a lot of disposable income, so most of my valuable cards have been with me for decades. Most in slabs were self-submitted. As an Exhibit collector I also got lucky with some purchases in the late 1990s and early 2000s when I thought that Cobb, Gehrig, Johnson and Ruth were underpriced and bought a bunch of them. I honestly don't think I'd have the stomach to pay the prices of some of those cards today. Don't get me wrong, I am thrilled that cards I own have risen in value so substantially, but I have trepidations spending $500 on a card, so I get real indigestion over a four-figure purchase, which is where so many prewar HOFers are.

All that said, I don't know that I would sell cards that are stagnant and plow the money into cards that have skyrocketed of late. I might instead sell off as much as I wanted and establish a cash reserve either to go after well-priced auction lots or to buy on the downturn when the economy craps the bed again. Patience in this regard may be the real virtue.

[mq711]

In line with this conversation, wondering How many actual collectors put a lot of “new” money into purchases or mainly just sell in order to purchase more desired cards.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I feel for the Millennials.

I'm 42, so technically at the tail end of Gen X, but feel kind of in that boat. I missed out on 70's and early 80's shows when things were somewhat reasonable. By the time I got into old cards it was the early 90's, and while certainly cheaper than today - price trends were already outlined and generally on the rise. I never knew a "cheap" Mantle card, and the same can be said for many of his contemporaries. Things like Goudey and tobacco cards were rarely seen outside of shows when I was a kid, and of course there they were not in line with my budget as a teenager.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by hcv123

Your question intimates that you don't put "new" money into cards as your example states you would sell off what you have for the potential new purchase? Is that true? If not, why not just save till you can buy the post war card (s) you speak of.

I do, it's just not a ton. Recently I used part of an inheritance to pickup some higher priced postwar cards that had always been on my list - and this is not a regret, as I said it's my first love and there were some things I wanted to take care of there first. But in terms of my normal spending, it's maybe a couple hundred dollars a year on cards. I could do more, but don't really want to make my hobby any large part of the family budget or anything like that. As a result, in my normal spending mode it's rare that I will spend more than $100 on a single card. Saving is of course an option, it just feels like such a long shot.