Jackie Robinson/Willie Mays

jchcollins · #1 01-17-2020, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil68

As I think about it...it's interesting that Mays is so far behind Mantle in terms of desirability. I understand post-seasons and exposure...Yankee mania, blonde hair, blue eyes. That would account for some difference. The difference, however, is astounding. Obviously, we're all thinking race.

I actually think it has less to do with race than it does time and circumstance. When the boomers took the card hobby from an underground thing to mainstream in the late 1970�s / early 80�s - Mantle was their guy. From the getgo, the cards that generation found the most desirable were Mantle over everyone. This has to do with being a Yankee and constantly in the WS, yes. The exposure Mantle got in the 1950�s and early 60�s made him the most recognizable face in baseball, and that is what the people who took the card hobby to new heights had on their minds when they did it.

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cardsagain74 · #2 01-18-2020, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jchcollins

I actually think it has less to do with race than it does time and circumstance. When the boomers took the card hobby from an underground thing to mainstream in the late 1970�s / early 80�s - Mantle was their guy. From the getgo, the cards that generation found the most desirable were Mantle over everyone. This has to do with being a Yankee and constantly in the WS, yes. The exposure Mantle got in the 1950�s and early 60�s made him the most recognizable face in baseball, and that is what the people who took the card hobby to new heights had on their minds when they did it.

All of this.

It also doesn't hurt that the guy had a top 6 or 8 lifetime position player postwar career of all time and was thought to hit 700 foot HRs. Despite having his knee ripped in half in his rookie season.

cardsagain74 · #3 01-18-2020, 12:19 PM

I'm not convinced that the "likeability" factor really comes into play that much.

Look at guys like Dimaggio, Ted Williams, Aaron, even Bill Russell. Little positive to say about any of their personalities, but that hasn't really affected their place in history, how revered they are by fans (both past and present), or how much people want their collectibles.

carlsonjok · #4 01-19-2020, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jchcollins

I actually think it has less to do with race than it does time and circumstance. When the boomers took the card hobby from an underground thing to mainstream in the late 1970’s / early 80’s - Mantle was their guy. From the getgo, the cards that generation found the most desirable were Mantle over everyone. This has to do with being a Yankee and constantly in the WS, yes. The exposure Mantle got in the 1950’s and early 60’s made him the most recognizable face in baseball, and that is what the people who took the card hobby to new heights had on their minds when they did it.

This may be a stupid question, but does the fact that Topps dumped pallets of the last series of 1952 Topps, which included Mantle's (sorta) rookie card, into the Hudson River have anything to do with it? The reflected glory of the '52 Mantle, if you will.

Wihawk · #5 01-19-2020, 01:49 PM

I think it's quite possible that those who minimize or discount May's post career behavior affecting his card values have never seen him at a signing or just got plain lucky to not see him as his typical rude, surly ass self.

Volod · #6 01-19-2020, 06:28 PM

Autograph hunters have to realize that there are among celebrities certain folks who just don't like the hobby and treat people who do with contempt. I recall hearing similar stories about Paul Newman, who once told famed signature collector Ralph Kiner to take a hike during a plane flight. There are quite a few others, and collectors should be aware of them and steer clear. Of course, there is no excuse for celebrities who take payment to appear at signings and then treat fans poorly, especially kids.

JollyElm · #7 01-19-2020, 07:41 PM

When I was a little kid, Willie Mays was my idol, mainly because I loved playing centerfield and he suddenly ended up on my hometown Mets. My dad would always regale us with tales of the good ole days when Say Hey was a NY Giant. Like so many other New Yorkers from his generation, after California stole our NL teams away, he refused to ever attend another baseball game. So with me (and a huge number of people), baseball was an incredible generational link between father and son. That's why Willie Mays will always remain that way in my heart, and I love grabbing his cards when I can. But as I grew up and kept hearing what an angry, unpleasant guy he was, I decided that I would never go see him in person at a signing event, and it has allowed me to keep my glorified, internal opinion of him intact.

ALBB · #8 01-20-2020, 07:25 AM

I too have always been a huge Mays fan

Ive heard and read the storys of his attitude at times during shows and events

Im glad I never met him, as it might lead to as crushing letdown

But with all the comments posted..I just dont see any drop in value of his stuff... obviously , the common 50s/60s stuff is always avail...but when it comes to some ultra rare Mays stuff - MeadowGold/ Briggs Meats/ and others, I think that stuff will always bring a big price ( supply/Demand/Avail)

cardsagain74 · #9 01-20-2020, 02:26 PM

A lot of responses about Mays' attitude have to do with personal experiences (or with some obscure $10 k card), but it still seems to me like his hobby and baseball lore status haven't been affected by it much. There isn't a blanket everyday fan/media perception that "Mays is a surly jerk" in the way that people look at guys like Bonds or Cobb.

Plus (and I realize this is just one person's selective memory experience, but still)......when I got back into the hobby and started building a postwar vintage collection months ago, the main goal for some of its foundation was to get a different top tier HOFer for every year from '52 to '79. My focus for the cards from the 50s and 60s was around $30 to $500 ones, a range used by many collectors. Quickly learned that Mantle (big shock eh), Jackie Robinson, Mays, and, to a slightly lesser extent, Aaron seemed like the most popular and difficult to get the right card at the right price. But who was the toughest (and last card) to get the right deal that entire period? Mays.

When I finally landed a legit grade 5 '59 Mays for the very mediocre price of 55 bucks, it felt like Monty Hall had just awarded the big deal of the day.

So when it comes to the average collector and what they're looking for, the demand for Mays cards seemed like the furthest thing from a problem

jchcollins · #10 01-25-2020, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlsonjok

This may be a stupid question, but does the fact that Topps dumped pallets of the last series of 1952 Topps, which included Mantle's (sorta) rookie card, into the Hudson River have anything to do with it? The reflected glory of the '52 Mantle, if you will.

Perhaps, that�s an iconic card with a great story to go with it - but I�m not sure that story was well known in the early 1980�s. I think Mantle was destined to be �the guy� from that era either way.

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