Non-delivery/severe delay on a BST transaction

[Fballguy]

I've had to file 3 missing mail cases in the past year. One was in transit for over 30 days and I refunded only to have the item show up a couple days later.

The other two packages were both mailed on the same day, both accepted by the Houston PO on 4/20 both still in transit on 4/24 and both never heard from again. They were heading to different destinations...One about four hours away in Dallas, the other to New York. That to me seems like an obvious stolen mail situation.

Having to deal with the USPS for customer service issues is an absolute worst case scenario. Their customer service, if you can actually reach a human is an abomination, their website is a nightmare and quite frankly you never get the sense anyone gives a S#!t.

I didn't file a stolen mail case, I filed a missing mail case. In both cases, I received calls from the destination post office which was pointless, because I knew the packages never made it there. The problem was in Houston. Nothing was ever found and to this day, once a month I'll get an email from the USPS saying they've still found nothing and sorry for the inconvenience.

Next time I will file a stolen mail case and also try the Congressman.

It sounds like the participants here are both straight up guys. At this point, I'd just refund the money and if the cards show, pay again.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

I've had to file 3 missing mail cases in the past year. One was in transit for over 30 days and I refunded only to have the item show up a couple days later.

The other two packages were both mailed on the same day, both accepted by the Houston PO on 4/20 both still in transit on 4/24 and both never heard from again. They were heading to different destinations...One about four hours away in Dallas, the other to New York. That to me seems like an obvious stolen mail situation.

Having to deal with the USPS for customer service issues is an absolute worst case scenario. Their customer service, if you can actually reach a human is an abomination, their website is a nightmare and quite frankly you never get the sense anyone gives a S#!t.

I didn't file a stolen mail case, I filed a missing mail case. In both cases, I received calls from the destination post office which was pointless, because I knew the packages never made it there. The problem was in Houston. Nothing was ever found and to this day, once a month I'll get an email from the USPS saying they've still found nothing and sorry for the inconvenience.

Next time I will file a stolen mail case and also try the Congressman.

It sounds like the participants here are both straight up guys. At this point, I'd just refund the money and if the cards show, pay again.

+1

[kevinlenane]

Hi all - I'm the original poster here - we've sadly reached the end of a productive conversation so I'll provide a quick update here since I'm not sure what else to do and could use some advice. Here are the highlights:

-A month has gone by and I've not heard a word from the seller
-I got one update the morning after I posted this about a phone call into a post office - after that nothing
-other than the above communication I've not gotten a single proactive message about the issue (always at my request)
-the seller chose to not use insurance but rather used certified mail - I've seen a tracking number that proves something was sent somewhere and is sitting somewhere.
-the seller looked up an address of a property I own and has asked multiple times why the cards weren't sent to an address of a house I own that my mother in law lives in
- presumably this address was looked up on White Pages via my name
- I asked for a refund today finally after over two months and in return got another question about this address he looked up.
-finally he told me that he's researching whether he needs to refund me since he has proof he sent something in a piece of mail

I'm super discouraged by this experience - I would have preferred to not have the seller identified but he's named himself here on this thread. I feel like I've been super patient here but the lack of communication and the strange questions about this other property have totally dead-ended the conversation. Happy to have the seller correct/amend anything I've said here.

[MULLINS5]

It's been two months...

Refund the buyer. He seems like a stand-up guy and will likely send payment again if it is received, even though he's not required to.

If paid with PayPal I'd begin the process of a refund ASAP.

[HercDriver]

One thing about insurance, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's basically worthless for what we generally do. You have to have a receipt showing proof of the purchase price, otherwise you only get the $50 standard insurance. So if I bought a Ryan RC in a pack from Woolworth's back in 1968, I need to have the receipt, showing that I paid 20 cents for it, in order to be reimbursed that 20 cents. Not the thousands of dollars that it's worth...the USPS doesn't care about that. Maybe you can still get the $50, but I'm not sure who's entitled to it, the sender or the receiver. The whole thing sucks. As does the USPS.

[jjp3rd]

Originally Posted by HercDriver

One thing about insurance, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's basically worthless for what we generally do. You have to have a receipt showing proof of the purchase price, otherwise you only get the $50 standard insurance. So if I bought a Ryan RC in a pack from Woolworth's back in 1968, I need to have the receipt, showing that I paid 20 cents for it, in order to be reimbursed that 20 cents. Not the thousands of dollars that it's worth...the USPS doesn't care about that. Maybe you can still get the $50, but I'm not sure who's entitled to it, the sender or the receiver. The whole thing sucks. As does the USPS.

I have had one experience with insurance, and I found it to be worthless. Depending on cost of item, signature required or certified seems like a better option. A postal carrier friend recommends certified. Just my two cents.

Sorry to hear about this whole situation. It’s really hard on both parties when a piece of mail like we send gets lost. It’s natural for suspicions to arise, but I think by and large, we are all doing the right thing. I hope it works out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Scott L.]

Refund the guy his money. He’s been MORE than patient.

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by HercDriver

One thing about insurance, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's basically worthless for what we generally do. You have to have a receipt showing proof of the purchase price, otherwise you only get the $50 standard insurance. So if I bought a Ryan RC in a pack from Woolworth's back in 1968, I need to have the receipt, showing that I paid 20 cents for it, in order to be reimbursed that 20 cents. Not the thousands of dollars that it's worth...the USPS doesn't care about that. Maybe you can still get the $50, but I'm not sure who's entitled to it, the sender or the receiver. The whole thing sucks. As does the USPS.

I never would have guessed this. Why do ebay card sellers even have insurance as a standard part of expensive purchases then? Could the value not be proven by the ebay/paypal "receipt"?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

I never would have guessed this. Why do ebay card sellers even have insurance as a standard part of expensive purchases then? Could the value not be proven by the ebay/paypal "receipt"?

It can. I have had 2 lost mail claims in over 20 years on EBay. Both times by showing what I sold the card for USPS paid for the lost item. Insurance is purchased by the seller and the claim paid to the seller.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by kevinlenane

Hi all - I'm the original poster here - we've sadly reached the end of a productive conversation so I'll provide a quick update here since I'm not sure what else to do and could use some advice. Here are the highlights:

-A month has gone by and I've not heard a word from the seller
-I got one update the morning after I posted this about a phone call into a post office - after that nothing
-other than the above communication I've not gotten a single proactive message about the issue (always at my request)
-the seller chose to not use insurance but rather used certified mail - I've seen a tracking number that proves something was sent somewhere and is sitting somewhere.
-the seller looked up an address of a property I own and has asked multiple times why the cards weren't sent to an address of a house I own that my mother in law lives in
- presumably this address was looked up on White Pages via my name
- I asked for a refund today finally after over two months and in return got another question about this address he looked up.
-finally he told me that he's researching whether he needs to refund me since he has proof he sent something in a piece of mail

I'm super discouraged by this experience - I would have preferred to not have the seller identified but he's named himself here on this thread. I feel like I've been super patient here but the lack of communication and the strange questions about this other property have totally dead-ended the conversation. Happy to have the seller correct/amend anything I've said here.

Seller can't control the mail but they sure should issue a refund after this much time has passed.

The address thing is very weird. Hopefully they quit researching and refund.

[oldjudge]

First, insurance works if it is a recent transaction. If a card sold for $200 is insured for $200 and lost, all the insurer has to do is show proof of the transaction and the PO will pay. Second, unless insurance was discussed prior to completing the transaction the buyer has no basis to assume that the seller bears the cost of the insurance. If the buyer wanted the card insured he should have requested it and worked out who would pay for it then. Since no one brought up insurance I think the best solution is for Brian to refund half the card's cost and leave this as a learning lesson for both parties.

[Tyruscobb]

To the seller: Do not issue a refund unless the shipping terms were negotiated and the parties agreed that the seller incurred the risk until successfully delivered. Absent those terms, the seller satisfied his requirements under the contract when he delivered the card to the third-party shipper.

The seller has provided proof this occurred. The buyer had the shipping risk once the seller handed the card to the Postal Service. I’m optimistic this is the correct legal outcome. The parties certainly had the right to negotiate and change these terms and outline who bore the shipping risk. Apparently, this did not occur.

Why should a seller now eat the cost, if the contract did not include the shipping method, type, insurance, etc. Absent those terms negotiated and agreed upon, the seller satisfied the contract when the Postal Service took possession and the seller has provided proof he shipped the item.

This was not an eBay transaction or a regular PayPal one (Friends and Family I’m assuming). This was a transaction between two private individuals. It’s a tough lesson, but the correct outcome. The seller wins this dispute.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Tyruscobb

To the seller: Do not issue a refund unless the shipping terms were negotiated and the parties agreed that the seller incurred the risk until successfully delivered. Absent those terms, the seller satisfied his requirements under the contract when he delivered the card to the third-party shipper.

The seller has provided proof this occurred. The buyer had the shipping risk once the seller handed the card to the Postal Service. I’m optimistic this is the correct legal outcome. The parties certainly had the right to negotiate and change these terms and outline who bore the shipping risk. Apparently, this did not occur.

Why should a seller now eat the cost, if the contract did not include the shipping method, type, insurance, etc. Absent those terms negotiated and agreed upon, the seller satisfied the contract when the Postal Service took possession and the seller has provided proof he shipped the item.

This was not an eBay transaction or a regular PayPal one (Friends and Family I’m assuming). This was a transaction between two private individuals. It’s a tough lesson, but the correct outcome. The seller wins this dispute.

I completely disagree.

[Scott L.]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

I completely disagree.

Amen

[RedsFan1941]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

I completely disagree.

anyone with an ounce of common sense disagrees (I am agreeing with you)

[MikeKam]

Originally Posted by Tyruscobb

To the seller: Do not issue a refund unless the shipping terms were negotiated and the parties agreed that the seller incurred the risk until successfully delivered. Absent those terms, the seller satisfied his requirements under the contract when he delivered the card to the third-party shipper.

The seller has provided proof this occurred. The buyer had the shipping risk once the seller handed the card to the Postal Service. I’m optimistic this is the correct legal outcome. The parties certainly had the right to negotiate and change these terms and outline who bore the shipping risk. Apparently, this did not occur.

Why should a seller now eat the cost, if the contract did not include the shipping method, type, insurance, etc. Absent those terms negotiated and agreed upon, the seller satisfied the contract when the Postal Service took possession and the seller has provided proof he shipped the item.

This was not an eBay transaction or a regular PayPal one (Friends and Family I’m assuming). This was a transaction between two private individuals. It’s a tough lesson, but the correct outcome. The seller wins this dispute.

Yikes.

As a seller myself, I feel I'm responsible for the item getting delivered. I've had multiple instances where an item has not reached the destination and I've had to eat the cost - it sucks, but I accept that as part of running an online/shipping based business.

The only examples I can really think of when I do not accept responsibility for delivery are when a buyer asks for items to be shipped without tracking to save on shipping costs, the buyer is in a country with poor logistics infrastructure and I clearly state I will not be held responsible if they want it shipped there, and/or when an item has been marked as delivered by a postal service but the buyer says they did not receive it (at that point I will try to help, but I feel it now becomes the buyer's responsibility assuming I have put in all of the correct details).