Jackie Robinson/Willie Mays

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

I actually think it has less to do with race than it does time and circumstance. When the boomers took the card hobby from an underground thing to mainstream in the late 1970’s / early 80’s - Mantle was their guy. From the getgo, the cards that generation found the most desirable were Mantle over everyone. This has to do with being a Yankee and constantly in the WS, yes. The exposure Mantle got in the 1950’s and early 60’s made him the most recognizable face in baseball, and that is what the people who took the card hobby to new heights had on their minds when they did it.

This may be a stupid question, but does the fact that Topps dumped pallets of the last series of 1952 Topps, which included Mantle's (sorta) rookie card, into the Hudson River have anything to do with it? The reflected glory of the '52 Mantle, if you will.

[Wihawk]

I think it's quite possible that those who minimize or discount May's post career behavior affecting his card values have never seen him at a signing or just got plain lucky to not see him as his typical rude, surly ass self.

[Volod]

Autograph hunters have to realize that there are among celebrities certain folks who just don't like the hobby and treat people who do with contempt. I recall hearing similar stories about Paul Newman, who once told famed signature collector Ralph Kiner to take a hike during a plane flight. There are quite a few others, and collectors should be aware of them and steer clear. Of course, there is no excuse for celebrities who take payment to appear at signings and then treat fans poorly, especially kids.

[JollyElm]

When I was a little kid, Willie Mays was my idol, mainly because I loved playing centerfield and he suddenly ended up on my hometown Mets. My dad would always regale us with tales of the good ole days when Say Hey was a NY Giant. Like so many other New Yorkers from his generation, after California stole our NL teams away, he refused to ever attend another baseball game. So with me (and a huge number of people), baseball was an incredible generational link between father and son. That's why Willie Mays will always remain that way in my heart, and I love grabbing his cards when I can. But as I grew up and kept hearing what an angry, unpleasant guy he was, I decided that I would never go see him in person at a signing event, and it has allowed me to keep my glorified, internal opinion of him intact.

[ALBB]

I too have always been a huge Mays fan

Ive heard and read the storys of his attitude at times during shows and events

Im glad I never met him, as it might lead to as crushing letdown

But with all the comments posted..I just dont see any drop in value of his stuff... obviously , the common 50s/60s stuff is always avail...but when it comes to some ultra rare Mays stuff - MeadowGold/ Briggs Meats/ and others, I think that stuff will always bring a big price ( supply/Demand/Avail)

[cardsagain74]

A lot of responses about Mays' attitude have to do with personal experiences (or with some obscure $10 k card), but it still seems to me like his hobby and baseball lore status haven't been affected by it much. There isn't a blanket everyday fan/media perception that "Mays is a surly jerk" in the way that people look at guys like Bonds or Cobb.

Plus (and I realize this is just one person's selective memory experience, but still)......when I got back into the hobby and started building a postwar vintage collection months ago, the main goal for some of its foundation was to get a different top tier HOFer for every year from '52 to '79. My focus for the cards from the 50s and 60s was around $30 to $500 ones, a range used by many collectors. Quickly learned that Mantle (big shock eh), Jackie Robinson, Mays, and, to a slightly lesser extent, Aaron seemed like the most popular and difficult to get the right card at the right price. But who was the toughest (and last card) to get the right deal that entire period? Mays.

When I finally landed a legit grade 5 '59 Mays for the very mediocre price of 55 bucks, it felt like Monty Hall had just awarded the big deal of the day.

So when it comes to the average collector and what they're looking for, the demand for Mays cards seemed like the furthest thing from a problem

[jgannon]

It's sad to hear how Willie has acted these card shows. I really haven't read anything much about his personal life. I know there was a biography written a few years back, although I don't know what it reveals about him, or if it is any good.

But what's interesting is juxtaposing the behavior mentioned above, with how Willie himself has described how he played, and his idea of baseball as being a kind of show business. He said he would try give the fans something different to remember every time they came to the ballpark. He famously used to wear his cap a little big so it would fall off when he ran the bases or after a fly ball. He was conscious of giving the fans a thrill.

And he truly did. And he was one of the greatest baseball players of all time. I'm completely sensitive to someone who idolized him coming to see him, and being treated rudely or poorly. What a painful experience that could be. But maybe there were reasons Willie felt bad about doing the shows. I don't know what his financial situation was or is. But maybe he needed the money. He took the job at a casino and didn't give it up when Kuhn suspended him from baseball. I'm just speculating. It's also possible, that maybe he just isn't the pleasant person we want him to be.

You know, if you analyzed every musician or composer's personal life, it's possible you might not like what you found out. Are you going to stop listening to a song or a piece of music by certain artists, because you didn't like certain things about them? Granted, we would like everyone to live up to our ideals. But there may be times, when even we fall short of our expectations. What it comes down to, is that all of these people were and are human beings. They did something amazingly well and became renowned for the thing they did. But underneath it all, they are only human.

Collecting may be a way to keep alive and continue living that feeling and magic you had as a kid with your favorite ballplayer(s) and/or team. And that's great. It really is. It keeps alive another time for us. Other people who were in our lives, but now are gone. Places we used to live, but have long ago left behind. Or a time and place that we only know about through history. I treasure all of this. The cards and memorabilia are a connection, which can bring all that to life. But while keeping a foot in that world, we also have to not lose sight of the other side of things, and not reduce those people we admired, into 2-dimensional cardboard (pun intended) characters.

One other thing: I was reading an autobiography by Felipe Alou. And to make a long story short (some of you might already be aware of this) there was some dissension on the early '60s Giants among some of the Latin ballplayers in reaction to some things that Alvin Dark was doing and saying. Some of the players were really ready to go off, but Mays, who was older and more experienced, convinced them to keep their cool and keep their eye on their careers. It would be interesting to hear Willie's teammates' opinions about him. There might already be a lot out there that I am just not familiar with. All of this talk about Mays has me thinking I'm going to seek out some books on him.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by carlsonjok

This may be a stupid question, but does the fact that Topps dumped pallets of the last series of 1952 Topps, which included Mantle's (sorta) rookie card, into the Hudson River have anything to do with it? The reflected glory of the '52 Mantle, if you will.

Perhaps, that’s an iconic card with a great story to go with it - but I’m not sure that story was well known in the early 1980’s. I think Mantle was destined to be “the guy” from that era either way.


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