Help with this 52 Topps Mantle

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Jamie

Here are the two Mantle cards from my master 1952 TOPPS set. When you compare the front's, you will notice minor differences.
The most notable difference is the glossy glare on Mickey's right arm (Type 2) vs. the clear skin tone (Type 1).


Type 1 .................................................. .........……........... Type 2




And, as already stated the stitches on the BB on the back are reversed between Type 1 vs. Type 2 cards.

Good luck.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Here's a Coinky Dink for all you Mantle Fans!!!!

I believe I own the same card as the type 2 in your 1952 master set?

Of course it's been cracked out and into another holder, but here is a photo and a scan of the same card. In the scan, you can see the crease by the logo. When I bought the card, I did some research before the purchase to see if the card had been altered and I saw that same exact card and assumed it was the same?

I had a respected AH, associated with the sale of the card, tell me he made the flip...

What do think? Is it the same card?

[1952boyntoncollector]

what you mean 'made the flip'

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

what you mean 'made the flip'

From the card in Ted Z's original post with the old SGC label to my card with the new SGC label. I think that's what they call it a "flip".

I'm sorry, but the terminology is new to me. Flip, Flop, POP...whatever you call it, it's the SAME CARD. From one plastic container to another newer plastic container....

I was just curious how the card could be in someones "Master 1952 Topps set", yet the card is in my possession??? Unless, mine is FAKE, which is certainly possible? Maybe we can just add it to the Billion Dollar Fraud?

[RCMcKenzie]

I know I sometimes post a scan of a card that I used to own, and forget that I traded it away years earlier. Maybe that's what happened here. Your Mantle has good provenance it seems...Rob

[irv]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

Here's a Coinky Dink for all you Mantle Fans!!!!

I believe I own the same card as the type 2 in your 1952 master set?

Of course it's been cracked out and into another holder, but here is a photo and a scan of the same card. In the scan, you can see the crease by the logo. When I bought the card, I did some research before the purchase to see if the card had been altered and I saw that same exact card and assumed it was the same?

I had a respected AH, associated with the sale of the card, tell me he made the flip...

What do think? Is it the same card?

Definitely the same card, imo.

Curious what the answer/opinion is going to be on this?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

From the card in Ted Z's original post with the old SGC label to my card with the new SGC label. I think that's what they call it a "flip".

I'm sorry, but the terminology is new to me. Flip, Flop, POP...whatever you call it, it's the SAME CARD. From one plastic container to another newer plastic container....

I was just curious how the card could be in someones "Master 1952 Topps set", yet the card is in my possession??? Unless, mine is FAKE, which is certainly possible? Maybe we can just add it to the Billion Dollar Fraud?

I have said many times, I wish there was an 'owner registry' so you can look up a cert number to see if someone is claiming ownership. Can be annoymous or a way to send email where real email is hidden to find out if a card for sale is really theirs ..

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I have said many times, I wish there was an 'owner registry' so you can look up a cert number to see if someone is claiming ownership. Can be annoymous or a way to send email where real email is hidden to find out if a card for sale is really theirs ..

or how about just being able to look up the number? That is pretty basic. I always thought I just couldn't find it on the SGC site and didn't want to ask

That is pretty stupid to not be able to look the card up? Why have a number in the first place? Anyway, according to the website and John, It's Monday and it will be up and running today!!!

Think of how many cards have been broken out of the slabs for both PSA and SGC and the numbers that are no longer valid, because they don't exist anymore? We'll there must be a million I tell ya

[chriskim]

How come the top right corner of the graded Mantle look sharper? Just the scan or in fact got doctored? (sorry, i am not trying to open a can of worm here)

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by chriskim

How come the top right corner of the graded Mantle look sharper? Just the scan or in fact got doctored? (sorry, i am not trying to open a can of worm here)

probably just a little doctoring.... The camera pics always look so much better than the scans. I think that could be the culprit of the "doctoring", I don't know? I think the card in hand looks right. There are only 2 other pairs of hands that touched the card. I now know where the card has been since 1952. That's pretty hard to do. very grateful to find out the history in any case.

1 pair of hands is a reputable AH (no, really) and the other is the guy I bought it from that worked with him to put the card in the new holder.

But you NEVER SAY never in this hobby, you know that. People will have to judge it based on all the pics when it goes up for sale, I guess and bid accordingly

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

or how about just being able to look up the number? That is pretty basic. I always thought I just couldn't find it on the SGC site and didn't want to ask

That is pretty stupid to not be able to look the card up? Why have a number in the first place? Anyway, according to the website and John, It's Monday and it will be up and running today!!!

Think of how many cards have been broken out of the slabs for both PSA and SGC and the numbers that are no longer valid, because they don't exist anymore? We'll there must be a million I tell ya

but with an owner registry you could get at least a disguised email from someone claiming they own the card so its in real time versus a database that may not be updated.....i wouldnt buy a mantle from guy number 1 if there is a guy number 2 telling me he owns the card...that issue would have to be worked out first..

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

but with an owner registry you could get at least a disguised email from someone claiming they own the card so its in real time versus a database that may not be updated.....i wouldnt buy a mantle from guy number 1 if there is a guy number 2 telling me he owns the card...that issue would have to be worked out first..

I hear ya. You have to look out for # 1 without stepping in the #2...That's quite the trick nowadays.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

what you mean 'made the flip'

The coin people use that terminology for getting the item into the holder by the company in a certain grade they were expecting. He was not saying he created the flip (although I can see the confusion).
Certainly looks like the same card; maybe Ted should check his set to make sure he either sold it and forgot, or report it stolen.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

Here's a Coinky Dink for all you Mantle Fans!!!!

I believe I own the same card as the type 2 in your 1952 master set?

Of course it's been cracked out and into another holder, but here is a photo and a scan of the same card. In the scan, you can see the crease by the logo. When I bought the card, I did some research before the purchase to see if the card had been altered and I saw that same exact card and assumed it was the same?

I had a respected AH, associated with the sale of the card, tell me he made the flip...

What do think? Is it the same card?

Whoa, whoa, whoa ... what the heck is going on here? So Ted posts this SGC 3 Mantle above and tells people it's from his master set, and yet Chuck owns the exact same one?

Based on the scans Chuck posted, it looks like that crease on the Yankees logo has been pressed out. The colors also look a little bit faded, so the card might have been soaked for a while.

Chuck, I want you to tilt this Mantle of yours under a lamp - is that crease on the Yankees logo completely gone?

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Whoa, whoa, whoa ... what the heck is going on here? So Ted posts this SGC 3 Mantle above and tells people it's from his master set, and yet Chuck owns the exact same one?

Based on the scans Chuck posted, it looks like that crease on the Yankees logo has been pressed out. The colors also look a little bit faded, so the card might have been soaked for a while.

Chuck, I want you to tilt this Mantle of yours under a lamp - is that crease on the Yankees logo completely gone?

No, the pic I have was taken by a camera with light.

The scan was taken from my reg HP scanner with the contrast up a little.

The card looks the same to me as Ted Z's with the crease. The crease was definitely there when I bought it. This helped me to determine it was the
same card and someone was NOT tryin to take the crease out.

The picture with the light, definitely hides the crease and mutes the blue, that's for sure.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

No, the pic I have was taken by a camera with light.

The scan was taken from my reg HP scanner with the contrast up a little.

The card looks the same to me as Ted Z's with the crease. The crease was definitely there when I bought it. This helped me to determine it was the
same card and someone was NOT tryin to take the crease out.

The picture with the light, definitely hides the crease and mutes the blue, that's for sure.

Thanks for the clarification. So I guess there are vintage cards out there that HAVEN'T been altered, right Chuck?

I'm still waiting to see what Ted has to say about this.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Thanks for the clarification. So I guess there are vintage cards out there that HAVEN'T been altered, right Chuck?

I'm still waiting to see what Ted has to say about this.

I don't know, 9-10 have some kind of shenanigans attached though

I did what I could to protect myself....AND some of you in this thread may wonder why I'm so pissie around here

furthermore, from my initial research, I found the card was sold @ auction:

June, 2016 for $17,569
August 2018 for $15,760

[irv]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

I don't know, 9-10 have some kind of shenanigans attached though

I did what I could to protect myself....AND some of you in this thread may wonder why I'm so pissie around here

furthermore, from my initial research, I found the card was sold @ auction:

June, 2016 for $17,569
August 2018 for $15,760

What year did you purchase it, Chuck?
This is getting interesting!

EDIT: Meant to add, there is a scuff/mark/blemish beside Mick's left ear on Ted's card but not on your's? Could be the scan or maybe it isn't the same card, which would be totally surprising to me, considering the other blemishes, if it weren't?

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by irv

What year did you purchase it, Chuck?
This is getting interesting!

EDIT: Meant to add, there is a scuff/mark/blemish beside Mick's left ear on Ted's card but not on your's? Could be the scan or maybe it isn't the same card, which would be totally surprising to me, considering the other blemishes, if it weren't?

I purchased it from a local collector/dealer in person. May 2019'

When Ted Z responds, I'll take some more pics if needed.

I'm curious if you can look up cert numbers on the SCG website or if they have a registry like PSA? Is this card in a current registry anywhere? Is that even ethical?

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

Here's a Coinky Dink for all you Mantle Fans!!!!

I believe I own the same card as the type 2 in your 1952 master set?

Of course it's been cracked out and into another holder, but here is a photo and a scan of the same card. In the scan, you can see the crease by the logo. When I bought the card, I did some research before the purchase to see if the card had been altered and I saw that same exact card and assumed it was the same?

I had a respected AH, associated with the sale of the card, tell me he made the flip...

What do think? Is it the same card?

Hi Chuck

I just returned home from my 3 days set-up at the Philly Show, so excuse my delay in responding.

Yes, that was my Type 2 version of the 1952 Mantle. I recently sold it. My scan of the two Mantle cards is a couple of years old.

This Mantle was originally in my friend's collection. He acquired it in the Fall of 1952 when he was a teenager in the Smoky Mountain region of North Carolina.

Shown below is a scan of this card prior to me getting it graded by SGC.

There you go....how's that for provenance. I hope you are happy with it.






TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[RedsFan1941]

another great story ted!!!!

[tedzan]

Hey redsfan1941

My long-time friend in North Carolina passed away several years ago, and he traded me his Mantle card while he was still alive.

So, shut up your FREAKING, SARCASTIC mouth ! !

YOU ARE DISGUSTING !


Sorry about this, every one here....but, this "JERK" has been posting this kind of "negative crap" for several years. And, I'm not putting up with it ANYMORE !

[RedsFan1941]

sorry for the misunderstanding ted

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hey redsfan1941

this "JERK" has been posting this kind of "negative crap" for several years. And, I'm not putting up with it ANYMORE !

+1

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Chuck

I just returned home from my 3 days set-up at the Philly Show, so excuse my delay in responding.

Yes, that was my Type 2 version of the 1952 Mantle. I recently sold it. My scan of the two Mantle cards is a couple of years old.

This Mantle was originally in my friend's collection. He acquired it in the Fall of 1952 when he was a teenager in the Smoky Mountain region of North Carolina.

Shown below is a scan of this card prior to me getting it graded by SGC.

There you go....how's that for provenance. I hope you are happy with it.






TED Z

T206 Reference
.

THANKS Ted Z,

YES I love it. Thanks for the pic of the card before it was entombed, broken out and entombed again...Just stunning. Great to know the details about my favorite card!!! I have to say finding this out is what this board is supposed to be about.

I know the feeling when guys follow you around & jump your shit when you put your opinions out there and tear into you personally. There's a couple right in this thread This is about the cards and it's the reason we all keep coming back here. We all love them!

Sorry about your buddy, but know that the card will stay with me until I'm gone and I do appreciate it. Some of you might be around, others not the next time it goes for up for sale.

You know, I ran into my first thief in the Baseball Card business 46 years ago when I bought my first 52 mantle for $75.00. I was 13 and that was a lot of money in 1974. The card never came but I did receive 10 other cards and a $25.00 credit memo. Maybe that's what started my sincere distrust in the hobby? I finally was able to buy it back in 2019 for just a tad higher than $75.00

Thanks again for the info Ted

[Fuddjcal]

Here's a pic of the little baby today sunbathing out by the BBQ. It was a little overcast but she sure looks good!

Good Luck Jamie finding the one that's right for you!

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

Here's a pic of the little baby today sunbathing out by the BBQ.

I don't think it's a good idea to do that! Eventually, the colors will start to fade!

Anyways, I got a surprise for you below:

Yep, that baby used to be mine. I was in my twenties and working like a slave inside a factory where temperatures would reach fifty degrees Celsius (due to the furnace). I was just saving all my money for a rainy day, until a buddy of mine showed me this fine piece of Americana. Yeah, the corners weren't that great, but the centering was outstanding! We quickly made the deal, and boy, I was so happy once I had this baby in my hands! I still remember, my family was like "you spent HOW MUCH? And for ONE CARD? OMG!" They nearly killed me!

And yes, I have since sold it. Big mistake though. Today an example with this centering is worth quite a bit.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

I don't think it's a good idea to do that! Eventually, the colors will start to fade!

Anyways, I got a surprise for you below:

Yep, that baby used to be mine. I was in my twenties and working like a slave inside a factory where temperatures would reach fifty degrees Celsius (due to the furnace). I was just saving all my money for a rainy day, until a buddy of mine showed me this fine piece of Americana. Yeah, the corners weren't that great, but the centering was outstanding! We quickly made the deal, and boy, I was so happy once I had this baby in my hands! I still remember, my family was like "you spent HOW MUCH? And for ONE CARD? OMG!" They nearly killed me!

And yes, I have since sold it. Big mistake though. Today an example with this centering is worth quite a bit.

It's Gorgeous! That smarts, but better off without it, IMHO

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

THANKS Ted Z,

YES I love it. Thanks for the pic of the card before it was entombed, broken out and entombed again...Just stunning. Great to know the details about my favorite card!!! I have to say finding this out is what this board is supposed to be about.

I know the feeling when guys follow you around & jump your shit when you put your opinions out there and tear into you personally. There's a couple right in this thread This is about the cards and it's the reason we all keep coming back here. We all love them!

Sorry about your buddy, but know that the card will stay with me until I'm gone and I do appreciate it. Some of you might be around, others not the next time it goes for up for sale.

You know, I ran into my first thief in the Baseball Card business 46 years ago when I bought my first 52 mantle for $75.00. I was 13 and that was a lot of money in 1974. The card never came but I did receive 10 other cards and a $25.00 credit memo. Maybe that's what started my sincere distrust in the hobby? I finally was able to buy it back in 2019 for just a tad higher than $75.00

Thanks again for the info Ted

THANK YOU, Chuck, for your kind words.

The original owner of your 1952T Mantle is Ralph Triplette , who grew up near Asheville, NC. He was a Professor at Western Carolina Univ. We met in 1981, and our love and research
regarding the 1949 BOWMAN cards and 1952 TOPPS cards is what got us together back then. Ralph and I co-authored a very informative article on the 1949 BOWMAN set in the 1983
issue of Bob Lemke's Baseball Cards magazine. Here is a sample of it. So, if your also interested in BOWMAN cards, you'll find this article very interesting reading.


.


Take care,


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by tedzan

THANK YOU, Chuck, for your kind words.

The original owner of your 1952T Mantle is Ralph Triplette , who grew up near Asheville, NC. He was a Professor at Western Carolina Univ. We met in 1981, and our love and research
regarding the 1949 BOWMAN cards and 1952 TOPPS cards is what got us together back then. Ralph and I co-authored a very informative article on the 1949 BOWMAN set in the 1983
issue of Bob Lemke's Baseball Cards magazine. Here is a sample of it. So, if your also interested in BOWMAN cards, you'll find this article very interesting reading.


.


Take care,


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

VERY Nice, THANKS for the trip down memory lane.