1966 Topps Series Release Dates ... Approx?

[toppcat]

It's a little grainy as I saved a Spreadsheet as a JPG but this is easier to read. You can see a few things:

1) 1958 set was going to end at 440, then they signed Stan Musial. That'st my theory at least: http://www.thetoppsarchives.com/2010...ing-slots.html

2) From 1958-66 I think the press runs are one less than the number of series. Looks like they printed 88 extras in 1958 before adding the final series. So in 1959 they had 110 extra cards across six press runs, which presented as seven series on the checklist cards. I'd need to see a lot of uncut sheets to prove this out, it's just a theory. UPDATE 4/13: Or you could just keep the lag at (usually) 22 cards. I should have added "possibly" in the first sentence.

3) Then there were 111 extras from 1961-66 where I think a checklist card is increasing the count by 1. Note the ratcheting down by one number per series on the differential between the likely press run and the series shown on the checklist.

4) In 1967 it looks like they ended up actually printing seven series across seven press runs. This occurred through 1970.

5) For 1971-72 it's looking like six press runs across six series.

Appreciate any thoughts or competing theories. You would need to see each sheet for each press run each year to fully check this all out.

[obcbeatle]

Originally Posted by toppcat

It's a little grainy as I saved a Spreadsheet as a JPG but this is easier to read. You can see a few things:

1) 1958 set was going to end at 440, then they signed Stan Musial. That'st my theory at least: http://www.thetoppsarchives.com/2010...ing-slots.html

2) From 1958-66 I think the press runs are one less than the number of series. Looks like they printed 88 extras in 1958 before adding the final series. So in 1959 they had 110 extra cards across six press runs, which presented as seven series on the checklist cards. I'd need to see a lot of uncut sheets to prove this out, it's just a theory.

3) Then there were 111 extras from 1961-66 where I think a checklist card is increasing the count by 1. Note the ratcheting down by one number per series on the differential between the likely press run and the series shown on the checklists.

4) In 1967 it looks like they ended up actually printing seven series across seven press runs. This occurred through 1970.

5) For 1971-72 it's looking like six press runs across six series.

Appreciate any thoughts or competing theories. You would need to see each sheet for each press run each year to fully check this all out.

Sorry, I'm still confused. Is a press run the number of cards Topps printed within a series? Example, in 1966 Topps printed 109 cards in the first series but card number 34 checklist lists only 88 cards. If true, why did the checklist not list cards 1-109? I don't understand the discrepancy. Sorry, I'm kinda' slow :-) Understanding the Topps printing process and uncut sheets has always been a problem for me. I need pictures :-) Thanks for all the replies so far, and for the Topps printing process data. I will continue to try to compute it within my "feeble math" brain :-)

[obcbeatle]

SNIP
2) From 1958-66 I think the press runs are one less than the number of series.
SNIP

Sorry, I forgot to ask, what does this mean? All the press runs in your data show equal number of series. Again, sorry for my confusion :-)

[obcbeatle]

Hmm, so maybe, in 1966 Topps printed cards #1-109 (Willie Mays to Ralph Terry) approximately from early March to sometime in April? That constitutes the real Series 1. Then the next print run (sheet?) was card #110-196 (Ernie Banks to Don Pavletich) approx. from April into May, the real Series 2. And so forth?

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by obcbeatle

SNIP
2) From 1958-66 I think the press runs are one less than the number of series.
SNIP

Sorry, I forgot to ask, what does this mean? All the press runs in your data show equal number of series. Again, sorry for my confusion :-)

See above, I mangled this one and have updated.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by obcbeatle

Sorry, I'm still confused. Is a press run the number of cards Topps printed within a series? Example, in 1966 Topps printed 109 cards in the first series but card number 34 checklist lists only 88 cards. If true, why did the checklist not list cards 1-109? I don't understand the discrepancy. Sorry, I'm kinda' slow :-) Understanding the Topps printing process and uncut sheets has always been a problem for me. I need pictures :-) Thanks for all the replies so far, and for the Topps printing process data. I will continue to try to compute it within my "feeble math" brain :-)

I updated my #2 items to clarify a little since I am as math addled as the next guy (and then some), believe me. The idea was Topps could preview the next series by printing 110 series 1 cards but showing 88 on the checklist. So 22 cards from series 2 "ride along", and you can entice the kiddies to start on the next series this way.

[obcbeatle]

Originally Posted by toppcat

I updated my #2 items to clarify a little since I am as math addled as the next guy (and then some), believe me. The idea was Topps could preview the next series by printing 110 series 1 cards but showing 88 on the checklist. So 22 cards from series 2 "ride along", and you can entice the kiddies to start on the next series this way.

Ahh, thank you Dave. Now I think I get it :-) So I'm guessing if I were to find an uncut sheet (Googling now) I'd find a 66T sheet with cards #1-109 on that sheet? I guess you have to be a set collector to care about this stuff :-)

[obcbeatle]

So is this reasonably accurate for 1966 Topps?:

Series 1 (print run #1 - 109) - March 1 (approx. date released)
Series 2 - (print run #110 - 196) April 1
Series 3 - (print run #197 - 283) May 1
Series 4 - (print run #284 - 370) June 1
Series 5 - (print run #371 - 446) July 1
Series 6 - (print run #447 - 522) August 1
Series 7 - (print run #523 - 598) Sept. 1

[bb66]

Originally Posted by obcbeatle

So is this reasonably accurate for 1966 Topps?:

Series 1 (print run #1 - 109) - March 1 (approx. date released)
Series 2 - (print run #110 - 196) April 1
Series 3 - (print run #197 - 283) May 1
Series 4 - (print run #284 - 370) June 1
Series 5 - (print run #371 - 446) July 1
Series 6 - (print run #447 - 522) August 1
Series 7 - (print run #523 - 598) Sept. 1

Jerry--I believe you have it now. They created the "extras" on each sheet(print run) to keep kids buying into the next Series. The second checklist was included on that first sheet along with the 21 cards. We just kept buying and chasing.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by obcbeatle

Ahh, thank you Dave. Now I think I get it :-) So I'm guessing if I were to find an uncut sheet (Googling now) I'd find a 66T sheet with cards #1-109 on that sheet? I guess you have to be a set collector to care about this stuff :-)

Look what I found (2nd press run):

[JollyElm]

Here's a 1972 first series sheet image I downloaded a while ago...

1972-Topps-Uncut-Sheet9.jpg

[jmoran19]

Originally Posted by obcbeatle

Ahh, thank you Dave. Now I think I get it :-) So I'm guessing if I were to find an uncut sheet (Googling now) I'd find a 66T sheet with cards #1-109 on that sheet? I guess you have to be a set collector to care about this stuff :-)

I have pics of both sides of series 1 for 1966. Will find and post. From memory 4 rows are printed three times across the 264 card sheet and 6 rows are printed twice. This is standard for 109/110 card series.

John

[jmoran19]

Here you go, triple prints are the rows with Mickey Mantle, Pete Rose, Sandy Koufax and Catfish Hunter.

The first series CL was also TP (rows 5 and 8 on first pic), this is why the series is 109 instead of 110 cards

[obcbeatle]

Thank you, thank you ... for all the replies! Finally all this is starting to make sense! The pictures help too :-) Much appreciated!

[bb66]

Dave and John ---thanks so much for those 1966 sheet pictures!! That is awesome. Very interesting. If anyone has others--please put them up. Thanks again guys!