A valuable lesson - eBay fraud + options

bnorth · #1 05-01-2020, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marchillo

Exactly - meaning if Bnorth accepts PPFF he is scamming PayPal just like he accused the OP of doing. That is what I was curious about. If he refuses to accept PPFF then I think his opinion holds a lot more weight.

I have no reason to lie, yes I do accept PayPal friends and family from people I have done transactions with before. Same goes with the very few times I have paid using it. I do not use it with some random person I have no idea who they really are.

Just to put it out there. If anybody has EVER had even a small problem with ANY transaction I have EVER made on here PLEASE post it.

Leon · #2 05-01-2020, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth

I have no reason to lie, yes I do accept PayPal friends and family from people I have done transactions with before. Same goes with the very few times I have paid using it. I do not use it with some random person I have no idea who they really are.

Just to put it out there. If anybody has EVER had even a small problem with ANY transaction I have EVER made on here PLEASE post it.

So scamming PP is ok to you (you take FF for goods) but doing something off of ebay (skirting a fee and/or tax) isn't ok? Got it. Your point of view is a bit contradictory, no?

rats60 · #3 05-02-2020, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

So scamming PP is ok to you (you take FF for goods) but doing something off of ebay (skirting a fee and/or tax) isn't ok? Got it. Your point of view is a bit contradictory, no?

These aren't remotely close to the same thing. Paypal doesn't make its money off fees. When they started out, everything was free and they said their profit came from holding people's money. With the increase of rewards credit cards, credit card fees became an increasing expense and so they moved to collecting that fee back from the user. When you pay with paypal friends and family, you have to pay from your bank account, which costs paypal nothing, or the sender pays 2.9% + .30. .30 is the swipe fee which goes to the credit card company. The % is negotiated between paypal and the CC processor. I don't know what if paypal pays that, but they do pay most of it on rewards credit cards. I have a CC that gives me 3% back on paypal, so if I pay with F&F and add 3%, it is a wash. If I pay with goods it is still a wash. Paypal is out very little if anything and on F&F they don't have to worry about fraud. If Paypal does away with F&F, I could care less, I am never paying the fee. It is Paypal charging me 3% to cover the charge from the CC company for the CC company giving me 3% for using their CC.

Ebay is a completely different matter. They make their money off final value fees. Most people are getting free listings, getting to advertise their cards for free, doing a deal off ebay is costing them all of the income from you using their platform. For the seller, they should price their item with the fees built in. I pay 9% (some pay less) Ebay and 3% Paypal. The buyer should be getting 1% Ebay bucks + 5% CC rewards or 6% off at a minimum. By doing a little work and timing, the buyer should be able to recoup the 12% plus more from ebay bucks, CC rewards, ebates, store rewards, etc. So why would anyone do a deal off ebay and assume all the risk and deny ebay income for using their platform?

Marchillo · #4 05-02-2020, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

These aren't remotely close to the same thing. Paypal doesn't make its money off fees. When they started out, everything was free and they said their profit came from holding people's money. With the increase of rewards credit cards, credit card fees became an increasing expense and so they moved to collecting that fee back from the user. When you pay with paypal friends and family, you have to pay from your bank account, which costs paypal nothing, or the sender pays 2.9% + .30. .30 is the swipe fee which goes to the credit card company. The % is negotiated between paypal and the CC processor. I don't know what if paypal pays that, but they do pay most of it on rewards credit cards. I have a CC that gives me 3% back on paypal, so if I pay with F&F and add 3%, it is a wash. If I pay with goods it is still a wash. Paypal is out very little if anything and on F&F they don't have to worry about fraud. If Paypal does away with F&F, I could care less, I am never paying the fee. It is Paypal charging me 3% to cover the charge from the CC company for the CC company giving me 3% for using their CC.

Ebay is a completely different matter. They make their money off final value fees. Most people are getting free listings, getting to advertise their cards for free, doing a deal off ebay is costing them all of the income from you using their platform. For the seller, they should price their item with the fees built in. I pay 9% (some pay less) Ebay and 3% Paypal. The buyer should be getting 1% Ebay bucks + 5% CC rewards or 6% off at a minimum. By doing a little work and timing, the buyer should be able to recoup the 12% plus more from ebay bucks, CC rewards, ebates, store rewards, etc. So why would anyone do a deal off ebay and assume all the risk and deny ebay income for using their platform?

Explain this -

My buddy runs an annual NCAA basketball pool at $5 each with around 200 people. For a couple years everyone would pay friends and family. Then PayPal caught on and wouldn�t allow it anymore. Why is that?

I have no idea of what you say is true but of course PayPal makes money off of fees. It may not be their main source of income but nonetheless they make money.

bobbyw8469 · #5 05-02-2020, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marchillo

Explain this -

My buddy runs an annual NCAA basketball pool at $5 each with around 200 people. For a couple years everyone would pay friends and family. Then PayPal caught on and wouldn�t allow it anymore. Why is that?

I have no idea of what you say is true but of course PayPal makes money off of fees. It may not be their main source of income but nonetheless they make money.

I have no idea about PayPal, but I am sure Zelle or Venmo would be glad to take over as payment processors.

MULLINS5 · #6 05-02-2020, 12:17 PM

After rereading it, I see the OP asked the seller to lower the price, and then the seller requested moving it off eBay and the PayPal FF payment. You didn't do anything wrong, just got caught in a potential scam. Hope it turns out OK for you, lesson learned.

bnorth · #7 05-02-2020, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marchillo

Explain this -

My buddy runs an annual NCAA basketball pool at $5 each with around 200 people. For a couple years everyone would pay friends and family. Then PayPal caught on and wouldn�t allow it anymore. Why is that?

I have no idea of what you say is true but of course PayPal makes money off of fees. It may not be their main source of income but nonetheless they make money.

Are you referring to illegal gambling pools?

swarmee · #8 05-02-2020, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth

Are you referring to illegal gambling pools?

Depending on the state, I believe it is not normally illegal if all the income is returned as prizes. Now if the organizer keeps $200 as his fee for operating the pool, it normally would be illegal.

bnorth · #9 05-02-2020, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swarmee

Depending on the state, I believe it is not normally illegal if all the income is returned as prizes. Now if the organizer keeps $200 as his fee for operating the pool, it normally would be illegal.

I know here several places/people stopped doing them a couple years ago because they are illegal here. The company my wife works at changed how they do them. They use these pools and other things to help pay for special activities for the mentally and physically challenged people they take care of.

bmcnutt · #10 05-02-2020, 10:11 PM

You need to reach out to Robert McCall. People know him as "The Equalizer". He will set things straight for you.

chalupacollects · #11 05-03-2020, 09:05 AM

I've done quite a few purchases on the BST and usually start with PPGS, maybe with CC back-up and paying the fee but after a good deal or two I usually consider them friends, even if we have never met and will go PPFF...

Is that wrong?

KaiserCurt · #12 05-03-2020, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chalupacollects

I've done quite a few purchases on the BST and usually start with PPGS, maybe with CC back-up and paying the fee but after a good deal or two I usually consider them friends, even if we have never met and will go PPFF...

Is that wrong?

I don�t think it is, but paying FF for goods and services is technically against the rules. I usually send FF because after a while 3% adds up 🤷*♂️

Tabe · #13 05-02-2020, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marchillo

Explain this -

My buddy runs an annual NCAA basketball pool at $5 each with around 200 people. For a couple years everyone would pay friends and family. Then PayPal caught on and wouldn�t allow it anymore. Why is that?

Because gambling, illegal or not, is banned on PayPal. Undoubtedly they figured out what was going on.

Bram99 · #14 05-03-2020, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tabe

Because gambling, illegal or not, is banned on PayPal. Undoubtedly they figured out what was going on.

Gambling is illegal at Bushwood...

steve B · #15 05-02-2020, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

These aren't remotely close to the same thing. Paypal doesn't make its money off fees. When they started out, everything was free and they said their profit came from holding people's money. With the increase of rewards credit cards, credit card fees became an increasing expense and so they moved to collecting that fee back from the user. When you pay with paypal friends and family, you have to pay from your bank account, which costs paypal nothing, or the sender pays 2.9% + .30. .30 is the swipe fee which goes to the credit card company. The % is negotiated between paypal and the CC processor. I don't know what if paypal pays that, but they do pay most of it on rewards credit cards. I have a CC that gives me 3% back on paypal, so if I pay with F&F and add 3%, it is a wash. If I pay with goods it is still a wash. Paypal is out very little if anything and on F&F they don't have to worry about fraud. If Paypal does away with F&F, I could care less, I am never paying the fee. It is Paypal charging me 3% to cover the charge from the CC company for the CC company giving me 3% for using their CC.

Ebay is a completely different matter. They make their money off final value fees. Most people are getting free listings, getting to advertise their cards for free, doing a deal off ebay is costing them all of the income from you using their platform. For the seller, they should price their item with the fees built in. I pay 9% (some pay less) Ebay and 3% Paypal. The buyer should be getting 1% Ebay bucks + 5% CC rewards or 6% off at a minimum. By doing a little work and timing, the buyer should be able to recoup the 12% plus more from ebay bucks, CC rewards, ebates, store rewards, etc. So why would anyone do a deal off ebay and assume all the risk and deny ebay income for using their platform?

The real money is in the customer data and being able to figure out what percent of people that buy X also buy Y. That way they can more effectively target ads and coupons. Target does lots of data work**, and prints coupons on the back of the receipt. When the kids were small, the coupons for formula always was there just before the supply we'd bought before ran out. It kept us coming back regularly because the discount was very good. We started going to Market Basket for groceries after they decided to seasonally stop carrying bacon. (And save probably $50-100 a week. )

Any large company that's successful does that now.
Paypal probably sells that raw data with no customer specific info to another company that can use it.
Using F+F removes that data from them.

**
Other examples of this data gathering.
Coke put soda machines that let you mix your own flavors in Wendys and a few other places, then after a couple years was able to select flavors to test in retail based on how popular they were in the machines.

Another Target one. From a friend who works there, but not at the exact store.
Mom comes in with teen daughter, very angry about her daughter getting an ad in the mail for baby registry stuff. After much yelling and carrying on "how dare you send my kid baby registry info!!!" while the daughter is mostly quiet, eventually
"Ummm Mom.... they aren't wrong"
The registry ad was sent right near the end of month 3... when chances of early problems were less.
The computer had figured it out based on previous purchases, which included among other stuff, a pregnancy test followed by certain vitamins within a particular timeframe. Both a bit scary and cool all at once.

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