N284 Buchner Gold Coin Set

[bcbgcbrcb]

Thanks for the insight, Ted. If you can check your notes for me, that would be great. My primary reason for asking is that with the Allen & Ginter and Goodwin sets being issued in 1888 and many of the N172’s not being issued for the first time until 1888 or later, the Buchner set being definitively dated as 1887 would make it the sole rookie card for some key players such as Cap Anson.

[rjackson44]

Pretty artwork

[teza11]

It looks like they used two different printers/lithographers to produce the N284 series. Donaldson Brothers printed the copyright date of 1887; Giles Litho & Liberty Printing did not. There's a possibility that they did not print concurrently. There's also a possibility that one printed a specific group of players and the other another group. Has anyone compiled a player checklist by printer or have an example of one player printed by both companies?

Jeff

[RCMcKenzie]

I have never noticed the different lithography companies before. Looking at a few cards I count 3 different companies so far: Julius Bien & Co. Litho NY, Giles Litho & Liberty printing, and Donaldson. The Thompson does not seem to have a copyright and is a Giles back. Von der ahe is the Julius Bien back. I'll make some more scans of other cards this weekend. Maybe n284 should be sub-classified by back type and/or Lithography Co. I made some close-up scans that do not fit this page, so I did not include them here. I'll try to resize them tomorrow. The backs are difficult to read without magnification for me.
Note the McCormick is a Giles back with an 1887 copyright.

[scooter729]

I've always enjoyed this set - here's a few favorites I have, all with the Donaldson Printer back

[teza11]

Ok, so we have 3 printers and apparently 3 different back types. Anyone have access to the complete checklist on pp 400-403 of the WTI Vol IV? I've attached the series overview from the Forbes & Mitchell guide below.

Jeff

[RCMcKenzie]

I haven't checked my cards, yet, but, was looking around on eBay. ChampsandBums has a type of police captain series that has "Ballin & Liebler Lith N.Y." "Copyrighted 1888". They have a second police capt. design that says Julius Bien copyright 1887. The actors and jockeys I looked at had the Julius Bien trademark and 1887, which puts the van der ahe in that sub-type of cards, unless someone has a Van der ahe without a Jules Bien back. I'll post some more tomorrow. (pic from champsandbums ebay listing)(actor pic is one I lifted a while back off of an ebay listing, not my card, for reference purposes...)

I only have the non-sport guide, the SCD, and Lipset checklists. Would also like to see a full checklist. Although at least one of the police card types were made in 1888 and still reference baseball on the back, I don't know if the baseball cards were also continuously released after 1887 or not, but it seems they may have been. Rob

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

Thanks for the insight, Ted. If you can check your notes for me, that would be great. My primary reason for asking is that with the Allen & Ginter and Goodwin sets being issued in 1888 and many of the N172’s not being issued for the first time until 1888 or later, the Buchner set being definitively dated as 1887 would make it the sole rookie card for some key players such as Cap Anson.

Phil
I checked out my research on the 39 cards I once had. I did not come up with any evidence to indicate that any of these N284 subjects (based
on their team identification) would have been printed & issued in 1888. Of course, this sample is only 28 % of this set's total number of cards.
However, normal probability suggests I would've found at least one guy (out of 39) whose team/timeline could have been 1888....which would
discount the N284 set of cards as a "rookie source".

Furthermore, what complicates this matter are the 3 different Lithograph printers that produced these cards. It may be tough to make the case
that the N284 Anson (or other famous HOFers of that era in this set) are their true rookie cards.

If these cards had bios printed on their backs (like T205's) they would provide us a certain timeline. Regarding a timeline, my guess is the N284
cards were printed & issued circa Fall 1887.

Anyhow, I haven't given up on this set, yet. I will continue studying the team/timeline factor for the remaining 100+ subjects in this set.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Great, thanks for all of your help and efforts, guys!

[deadballera]

picked up a Gold Coin baseball a week or so ago.

Danny Richardson - PSA 2

nice artwork on those cards !

[yomass]

Doesn't this "set" consist of three different and distinct issues? The Browns were probably issued in 1887 following their 1886 championship. The two others are the generic poses (same pose for each position) and the non-generic poses (where the picture might actually look like the player). The latter two sets could have been printed in 1887 or 1888.

I am traveling and unable to check the backs in my collection, but do the different printers correspond to the different sets?

[RCMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by yomass

...do the different printers correspond to the different sets?

Thanks for chiming in on this point. I've been trying to figure out a pattern, but so far it just gets more confusing. I thought I was going to see all of the Browns' cards with the Julius Bien back that reads "actors & jockeys". Lipset calls this set Type 2 or Type B, Browns Champions. I have a Barkley with "Fire Chiefs" back. The card is miscut, so no Litho i.d. is present. Usually, the fire chief backs are by Donaldson and are found in Lipset's type A and Type C sets. I generally like to group cards by the backs, which makes the N284 set very confusing to me. I will continue to study it and post more as I learn more. So far, I have not found a front with multiple backs...Rob

[RCMcKenzie]

Here are some more scans of the subset "A" series of generic images. Note the different backs. Some have similar, but not exactly the same backgrounds, some have completely different...More later this week. If anyone wants to post front/back scans, it will help with the survey.