Are we allowed to talk about the Washington Redskins name change?

[packs]

Nearly one third of all Native Americans live on more than 300 reservations in this country. According to a 2010 study, 28 percent of all Native Americans living on reservations live beneath the poverty line. The overall US average for everyone else is 12 percent.

I also don't think forced cultural assimilation is the same as integration. Native American children were forced to attend boarding schools to be "Americanized". These schools forbade any cultural customs or traditional languages and is the reason many have disappeared.

In addition, 58 % (or the majority) of tribes do not have any gaming operations.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Who would of thought the early football video games that didnt have the real team names and would say 'washington football team' now got the team name dead right

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

Nearly 700,000 Native Americans (or one third of all Native Americans) live on more than 300 reservations in this country. According to a 2010 study, 28 percent of all Native Americans living on reservations live beneath the poverty line. The overall US average for everyone else is 12 percent.

I also don't think forced cultural assimilation is the same as integration. Native American children were forced to attend boarding schools to be "Americanized". These schools forbade any cultural customs or traditional languages and is the reason many have disappeared.

In addition, 58 % (or the majority) of tribes do not have any gaming operations.

I am sure before the colonist came to north america there were warring indian nations and the winning indian nation took the losers and made them slaves and forced them to assimilate or die. Its not like the colonists have the patent on things. If the indians won the war, do you think the colonists would be given casinos? even if its just 42% of them..?

[packs]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I am sure before the colonist came to north america there were warring indian nations and the winning indian nation took the losers and made them slaves and forced them to assimilate or die. Its not like the colonists have the patent on things. If the indians won the war, do you think the colonists would be given casinos? even if its just 42% of them..?

When you say colonists do you mean the people who came here to commit genocide? No, I don't think anyone would be in favor of rewarding them.

Might also help to remember the first Native American casino was built in 1979 (after two defeats in lower courts and a unanimous Supreme Court decision, not really giving, right?). Total time from Jamestown to 1979 is 362 years.

[vintagetoppsguy]

How do you know the "Native Americans" were really Native Americans? Maybe some other Native Americans were here before them and the "Native Americans" savagely wiped them out? I can't prove that it's true, but you can't prove that it isn't. If that were the case, then the "Native Americans" aren't really Native Americans.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

How do you know the "Native Americans" were really Native Americans? Maybe some other Native Americans were here before them and the "Native Americans" savagely wiped them out? I can't prove that it's true, but you can't prove that it isn't. If that were the case, then the "Native Americans" aren't really Native Americans.

Some Indian tribes used to routinely butcher each other. War paint and scalping dead enemies were their inventions, before Europeans came on the scene. And yes, they captured women and children as slaves or concubines.

One of the reasons the Ojibwe (Chippewa) have never been at war with Europeans is that they were allies against the Dakota (Sioux,) who were known as fierce warriors.

Some tribes were known as being more peaceful, like the Navajo, Ojibwe, and Hopi. Others were known as dangerous warriors, like the Dakota and Cheyenne. Definitely, all Indians were not alike, just like all Europeans were not all alike. This notion that all Indians were innocent, peaceful victims and all westward-expanding Europeans were bad people is silly.

And a previous poster has it right. If you look at all conquered peoples throughout the known history of the world, the American Indian came out best.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Some Indian tribes used to routinely butcher each other. War paint and scalping dead enemies were their inventions, before Europeans came on the scene. And yes, they captured women and children as slaves or concubines.

One of the reasons the Ojibwe (Chippewa) have never been at war with Europeans is that they were allies against the Dakota (Sioux,) who were known as fierce warriors.

Some tribes were known as being more peaceful, like the Navajo, Ojibwe, and Hopi. Others were known as dangerous warriors, like the Dakota and Cheyenne. Definitely, all Indians were not alike, just like all Europeans were not all alike. This notion that all Indians were innocent, peaceful victims and all westward-expanding Europeans were bad people is silly.

And a previous poster has it right. If you look at all conquered peoples throughout the known history of the world, the American Indian came out best.

Right..the way i look at it...what advances the human race

eventually the sun (already lived half its life) will die and all life on earth will die....so if we lived off the earth like native americans....thats a death sentence eventually....we need to get into space....of course native americans wont nuke each other either...

[howard38]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Right..the way i look at it...what advances the human race

eventually the sun (already lived half its life) will die and all life on earth will die....so if we lived off the earth like native americans....thats a death sentence eventually....we need to get into space....of course native americans wont nuke each other either...

I can't tell if this is tongue in cheek or not. Are you suggesting that if Europeans never conquered the Americas that in a billion+ years 1) the indigenous people never would have come up with advanced technology & 2) that somehow Europeans & Asians wouldn't have eventually figured out space travel?

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by packs

When you say colonists do you mean the people who came here to commit genocide? No, I don't think anyone would be in favor of rewarding them.

Might also help to remember the first Native American casino was built in 1979 (after two defeats in lower courts and a unanimous Supreme Court decision, not really giving, right?). Total time from Jamestown to 1979 is 362 years.

Had the goal been "genocide" it was a miserable failure. Many more Native Americans are alive today than before 1600, when the plains Indians were hunting buffalo with arrows and spears, on foot (no horses until the Spanish brought them to this continent.)

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

When you say colonists do you mean the people who came here to commit genocide? No, I don't think anyone would be in favor of rewarding them.

Might also help to remember the first Native American casino was built in 1979 (after two defeats in lower courts and a unanimous Supreme Court decision, not really giving, right?). Total time from Jamestown to 1979 is 362 years.

People have taken land with the World's ok in a lot lesser manner than how the U.S came across their land.

So total time from jamestown is 362 years..and 400 years from now the casinos will still be there....so no idea what your point is ..if its by number of years...you then mean its ok if casinos are allowed for the next 400 years....its a fake argument..

North america was not organized ...open borders is not a country....of course rivers in america were 'discovered' by other people before certain people 'discovered' them like hernando de soto ....its who organized it first...


So warring indian tribes that took land from other indian tribes need to give that land back as well.....some land in which casinos were built on may of been owned by an older tribe 200 years earlier but lost a war that they did not start......

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

People have taken land with the World's ok in a lot lesser manner than how the U.S came across their land.

So total time from jamestown is 362 years..and 400 years from now the casinos will still be there....so no idea what your point is ..if its by number of years...you then mean its ok if casinos are allowed for the next 400 years....its a fake argument..

North america was not organized ...open borders is not a country....of course rivers in america were 'discovered' by other people before certain people 'discovered' them like hernando de soto ....its who organized it first...


So warring indian tribes that took land from other indian tribes need to give that land back as well.....some land in which casinos were built on may of been owned by an older tribe 200 years earlier but lost a war that they did not start......

Just wondering if all of what you say here makes what the citizens of the United States did to the Native Americans in the 1800's right?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

Just wondering if all of what you say here makes what the citizens of the United States did to the Native Americans in the 1800's right?

Sort of a loaded question, were Native Americans in every corner of North America? Were Colonists allowed to have some land. what amount of land would you agree they could have? What if the indians did not agree? War is a political way to solve issues.

Should Germany have their land, What about Rome, what about every country in which there was an indigenous people before it..

Aliens come down with superior weapons and take over earth..i guess 5000 yeas later we can argue if what they did was right too........

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

Just wondering if all of what you say here makes what the citizens of the United States did to the Native Americans in the 1800's right?

Isn't it rather simplistic to lump all US citizens in one group, lump all Native Americans in another group, then play them off against each other?

Many US citizens and Native Americans got along quite well. US citizens brought horses and rifles to the Indians, making it easier and safer to hunt. They brought written language to preserve Native American history. Have you ever wondered why most of the earliest Native Americans we know about lived in the 1800s, like Crazy Horse, Sitting Bull, Little Crow, and so on? Those who lived before have largely been lost to history because of the lack of written language.

The Ojibwe had a famine crisis every winter, until Europeans taught them to parch their rice so it would last through the winter. European medicines extended life expectancy. And US citizens ended what had been constant raiding and warfare between various tribes.

Look at the attached picture. Before Europeans came to this continent, Native Americans hadn't even invented the wheel; they used travois instead, and before horses came to the continent, they were pulled by hand.

Take all of it together. The US citizens treated the Native Americans better than any "conquerers" in history. Better than Ghengis Khan treated his conquered, better than Alexander treated his, better than PolPot, Hitler, Caesar, Hannibal, and so on.

In fact, it wasn't even a "conquering." It was a melding.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Isn't it rather simplistic to lump all US citizens in one group, lump all Native Americans in another group, then play them off against each other?

Many US citizens and Native Americans got along quite well. US citizens brought horses and rifles to the Indians, making it easier and safer to hunt. They brought written language to preserve Native American history. Have you ever wondered why most of the earliest Native Americans we know about lived in the 1800s, like Crazy Horse, Sitting Bull, Little Crow, and so on? Those who lived before have largely been lost to history because of the lack of written language.

The Ojibwe had a famine crisis every winter, until Europeans taught them to parch their rice so it would last through the winter. European medicines extended life expectancy. And US citizens ended what had been constant raiding and warfare between various tribes.

Look at the attached picture. Before Europeans came to this continent, Native Americans hadn't even invented the wheel; they used travois instead, and before horses came to the continent, they were pulled by hand.

Take all of it together. The US citizens treated the Native Americans better than any "conquerers" in history. Better than Ghengis Khan treated his conquered, better than Alexander treated his, better than PolPot, Hitler, Caesar, Hannibal, and so on.

In fact, it wasn't even a "conquering." It was a melding.

agree..and your comments about written language is what I was commenting about first to organize things. Not the first but first to discover a river etc .

I think we are lucky that the U.S was the first country to have the nuclear weapon, what if it was Iran?