Best lefty off all time? My vote is Koufax!

brian1961 · #1 07-25-2020, 10:25 AM

Ya know, Tom, I get what you are saying in regard to Sandy Koufax being greatly helped by his home stadium. However, the way you're stressing the issue, you would think Walter O'Malley designed his beautiful ball field with Don and Sandy in mind. Following your line of belief, ANY opposing pitcher would have been greatly helped by pitching in Chavez Ravine. How much do we throw away players' careers then?

Guys have whined that Roger Maris would not have broken Babe Ruth's record if Mickey Mantle was not looming in the on-deck circle. For that matter, Yankee Stadium WAS designed to benefit Babe Ruth. So, do we throw out Babe Ruth too?

Ernie Banks had the benefit of batting in the friendly confines of Wrigley Field. So, do we throw him out of the HOF because he had it too easy?

All those spitball pitchers that relied on their humid ball when it was perfectly legal----do we throw them out of the HOF because they should not have done such dastardly pitching. The nerve of them!!!!!

You guys can isolate all the baseball dope isotope you want, ad nauseam. I fully realize the OP insisted he believes Sandy Koufax was the greatest left-handed pitcher of all time. Well, I seem to remember the eloquent words of the late Vin Skully as he reminesced about Mr. Koufax in Ken Burns history of baseball. Vin convinced me; Koufax was the greatest lefty, period. Maybe he only had six seasons of greatness, but that was enough for Skully, and that's enough for me.

--- Brian Powell

P.S. I well remember upon the announcement in the spring of 1969 that Mickey Mantle was retiring, the esteemed Chicago Tribune sports editor, Dave Condon, penned a glowing tribute to Mickey, and said he believed that Mantle was the greatest Yankee of all time. It wasn't as if Mr. Condon had only seen Mick play a few times. How much he had seen the Babe play in his prime, I don't know; however, he was fully aware of what he was writing, putting Mick above the Babe.

I suppose, in the end, on Net54baseball we have a hot stove league going on 365 days a year!

btcarfagno · #2 07-25-2020, 10:38 AM

Not saying anything gets "tossed out". It's all about context. Larry Walker is now a HOFer. What is the first thing you hear when that gets brought up?

"Yeah but....".

And it's true. Context matters.

What I am asking is...where's the "yeah but" for Koufax? Statistically speaking, his home/road splits over that five year period might be even more extreme than those of Walker. But there never is a "Yeah but" with him. And there should be.

Great talent. Unbelievable pitcher for five years. Obvious HOFer. Strikeout numbers that make your head spin.

Yeah but...

brian1961 · #3 07-25-2020, 11:10 AM

It's ok, Tom. Let's face it, bro, if you put each HOFer under the hot lamp of scrutiny, the far majority of them would have a context that shadows their career.

I remember being so furious when the powers that be elected Chicago Cub great Ron Santo to the Hall of Fame about a year after the poor man died. Ron had so wanted to be elected while he was still alive to enjoy it. I penned a strong piece about the matter, as well as my rich memories of Ron, that Sports Collectors Digest ran. The crux of my article was that Ron Santo should have been a first ballot unanimous Hall of Famer due to the fact he played his entire career with Type I blood sugar diabetes. Before I got to see a photo of Santo's HOF plaque, I wrote that his plaque should say loud and clear he played at the all-star level even though he was afflicted with diabetes that required his constant attention and care. Months after I wrote my Santo article, I saw his plaque. They did him right in expressing his "context" in the first sentence. Well done. "YEAH, BUT" ya should've elected Ron Santo when he was alive, stupid!

Happy collecting, fellas. Try to keep cool in these dog days of summer.

--- Brian Powell

btcarfagno · #4 07-25-2020, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian1961

It's ok, Tom. Let's face it, bro, if you put each HOFer under the hot lamp of scrutiny, the far majority of them would have a context that shadows their career.

I remember being so furious when the powers that be elected Chicago Cub great Ron Santo to the Hall of Fame about a year after the poor man died. Ron had so wanted to be elected while he was still alive to enjoy it. I penned a strong piece about the matter, as well as my rich memories of Ron, that Sports Collectors Digest ran. The crux of my article was that Ron Santo should have been a first ballot unanimous Hall of Famer due to the fact he played his entire career with Type I blood sugar diabetes. Before I got to see a photo of Santo's HOF plaque, I wrote that his plaque should say loud and clear he played at the all-star level even though he was afflicted with diabetes that required his constant attention and care. Months after I wrote my Santo article, I saw his plaque. They did him right in expressing his "context" in the first sentence. Well done. "YEAH, BUT" ya should've elected Ron Santo when he was alive, stupid!

Happy collecting, fellas. Try to keep cool in these dog days of summer.

--- Brian Powell

I was calling for Santo to be elected for decades. Offense and defense at a sparsely populated HOF position. One of the 10-12 best ever at the position.

rats60 · #5 07-26-2020, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian1961

Ya know, Tom, I get what you are saying in regard to Sandy Koufax being greatly helped by his home stadium. However, the way you're stressing the issue, you would think Walter O'Malley designed his beautiful ball field with Don and Sandy in mind. Following your line of belief, ANY opposing pitcher would have been greatly helped by pitching in Chavez Ravine. How much do we throw away players' careers then?

Guys have whined that Roger Maris would not have broken Babe Ruth's record if Mickey Mantle was not looming in the on-deck circle. For that matter, Yankee Stadium WAS designed to benefit Babe Ruth. So, do we throw out Babe Ruth too?

Ernie Banks had the benefit of batting in the friendly confines of Wrigley Field. So, do we throw him out of the HOF because he had it too easy?

All those spitball pitchers that relied on their humid ball when it was perfectly legal----do we throw them out of the HOF because they should not have done such dastardly pitching. The nerve of them!!!!!

You guys can isolate all the baseball dope isotope you want, ad nauseam. I fully realize the OP insisted he believes Sandy Koufax was the greatest left-handed pitcher of all time. Well, I seem to remember the eloquent words of the late Vin Skully as he reminesced about Mr. Koufax in Ken Burns history of baseball. Vin convinced me; Koufax was the greatest lefty, period. Maybe he only had six seasons of greatness, but that was enough for Skully, and that's enough for me.

--- Brian Powell

P.S. I well remember upon the announcement in the spring of 1969 that Mickey Mantle was retiring, the esteemed Chicago Tribune sports editor, Dave Condon, penned a glowing tribute to Mickey, and said he believed that Mantle was the greatest Yankee of all time. It wasn't as if Mr. Condon had only seen Mick play a few times. How much he had seen the Babe play in his prime, I don't know; however, he was fully aware of what he was writing, putting Mick above the Babe.

I suppose, in the end, on Net54baseball we have a hot stove league going on 365 days a year!

We need to throw out Hank Aaron too. The first half of his career he played in a stadium that for all but 1 year was in the top half of the NL in HRs allowed. From 1966-1974 Aaron played in the easiest stadium to hit HRs in. And in 1969 the Braves moved the fences in to make it easier for Aaron to hit home runs, moving the fences back in 1974 when his career was pretty much over and he was about to break Ruth's HR record. Why isn't there an asterisk by Aaron?

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