Mantle or Others?

[investinrookies]

The leaf robinson rc is quickly becoming if not already one of those cards that transcends the hobby, a must have. In a few years it will be to the level of a 52T Mantle, I believe that now.

[Exhibitman]

Babe fucking ruth!

[ALR-bishop]

Originally Posted by investinrookies

The leaf robinson rc is quickly becoming if not already one of those cards that transcends the hobby, a must have. In a few years it will be to the level of a 52T Mantle, I believe that now.

Come back and let us know if you still believe it then 😊

[Gary Dunaier]

Originally Posted by investinrookies

The leaf robinson rc is quickly becoming if not already one of those cards that transcends the hobby, a must have. In a few years it will be to the level of a 52T Mantle, I believe that now.

What made you arrive at that opinion?

I'm not trying to "challenge" you or imply that you don't know what you're talking about. This is the first that I'VE heard about it, and maybe it just reflects that I don't follow the vintage ballcard hobby as closely as many here on the Net 54 do, but what you said is news to me.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Gary Dunaier

What made you arrive at that opinion?



I'm not trying to "challenge" you or imply that you don't know what you're talking about. This is the first that I'VE heard about it, and maybe it just reflects that I don't follow the vintage ballcard hobby as closely as many here on the Net 54 do, but what you said is news to me.

I'm not certain it will rise to the level of 52T Mantle that quickly, but I agree that Robinson is very important to a younger generation. His story is taught in schools, Mantle is nobody to kids who know little about baseball. All Robinson cards will increase rapidly in price as younger generations gain meaningful employment. That Robinson movie that came out 5 years ago, with a rap and hip hop soundtrack...I had soccer kids who would never ever play baseball talking to me about Jackie Robinson.

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[rats60]

Originally Posted by Gary Dunaier

What made you arrive at that opinion?

I'm not trying to "challenge" you or imply that you don't know what you're talking about. This is the first that I'VE heard about it, and maybe it just reflects that I don't follow the vintage ballcard hobby as closely as many here on the Net 54 do, but what you said is news to me.

It has tripled in value over the last year and is now the most valuable normal print run rookie card, passing the 51B Mantle. Only the 52T Mantle is more popular and expensive among cards with a normal print run. Mantle's popularity is based on being the star of 50s Yankees when card collecting became popular. Those kids grew up and drove the price of that card with their disposal income. As that generation dies off, it is up to further generations to drive demand, but they have no personal connection to that card.

Robinson's legacy is more lasting as the player who broke the color barrier. He has appeal that goes beyond sports and kids who collected cards. I wonder how much the current BLM and social justice movement has in the current run up in price and these things are not going away. There is also the potential for generations of minorities who have been depressed economically to see more disposal income because of these movements. It has been joked that card shows are a bunch of overweight old white men. What happens if they start to look more like America?

[seanofjapan]

Originally Posted by rats60

It has tripled in value over the last year and is now the most valuable normal print run rookie card, passing the 51B Mantle. Only the 52T Mantle is more popular and expensive among cards with a normal print run. Mantle's popularity is based on being the star of 50s Yankees when card collecting became popular. Those kids grew up and drove the price of that card with their disposal income. As that generation dies off, it is up to further generations to drive demand, but they have no personal connection to that card.

Robinson's legacy is more lasting as the player who broke the color barrier. He has appeal that goes beyond sports and kids who collected cards. I wonder how much the current BLM and social justice movement has in the current run up in price and these things are not going away. There is also the potential for generations of minorities who have been depressed economically to see more disposal income because of these movements. It has been joked that card shows are a bunch of overweight old white men. What happens if they start to look more like America?

I tend to agree with this.

Mantle just doesn’t have any claim to importance other than having been the most popular player for a few years when a lot of baby boomers were kids and collected cards.

He isn’t Robinson who broke the color barrier.

He isn’t Ruth who revolutionized the game.

He isn’t seriously mentioned when arguments about the best player ever come up. Its hard to even make the case that he was the best player in his own time.

He didn’t set any major records.

It really does seem like his relative popularity in the hobby has nowhere to go but down once all the people who loved him when they were kids pass on and future generations ask themselves why this guy is so key.

[Tomi]

Are you guys serious? His popularity will go down once his fans start to pass on? Maybe go on baseball reference and see the stats Mantle led the league in his career. The guy was an absolute monster. Even with a broken down body and missing games he still was a league leader. Legendary post season HR's and 7 WS championships. Cobb and Ruth seem to getting more and more popular all the time and their fans have been dead for a long time.

[davidan]

Originally Posted by Tomi

Are you guys serious? His popularity will go down once his fans start to pass on? Maybe go on baseball reference and see the stats Mantle led the league in his career. The guy was an absolute monster. Even with a broken down body and missing games he still was a league leader. Legendary post season HR's and 7 WS championships. Cobb and Ruth seem to getting more and more popular all the time and their fans have been dead for a long time.

+1 my thoughts exactly. Mantle will always be a solid bet and an icon.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Tomi

Are you guys serious? His popularity will go down once his fans start to pass on? Maybe go on baseball reference and see the stats Mantle led the league in his career. The guy was an absolute monster. Even with a broken down body and missing games he still was a league leader. Legendary post season HR's and 7 WS championships. Cobb and Ruth seem to getting more and more popular all the time and their fans have been dead for a long time.

Go look at Ted Williams. He missed 5 years in the military, yet Black Ink Williams 122, Mantle 62. Williams used to be more than both Mantle and Robinson and now he is less. No one is saying that Mantles are going to drop, but Jackie catching him is definitely realistic.

[Exhibitman]

We should not conflate fame of specific players transcending the sport and impacting value of the cards with the fame of specific cards in the hobby transcending the player and impacting the value. Ruth, Gehrig, Robinson, Jordan, Ali, those guys transcend the sport. If you look at them in terms of global card issue diversity, there is no contest: Muhammad Ali has cards issued in every corner of the world, and Jordan is a distant second.

I don't think Mantle does, but Mantle's 1952 Topps card transcends the player within the hobby. it has been the marquee postwar baseball card for 40 years--the major boom in price started in around 1980--and is likely to remain so. It may very well be overtaken in terms of value by the MJ or LeBron RCs in the future because of the younger skew of their fans, the international sport market, and the demise of actual Mantle fans.

[Tomi]

Originally Posted by rats60

Go look at Ted Williams. He missed 5 years in the military, yet Black Ink Williams 122, Mantle 62. Williams used to be more than both Mantle and Robinson and now he is less. No one is saying that Mantles are going to drop, but Jackie catching him is definitely realistic.

He missed three years to military not five but still played a year longer than Mantle (19 yrs. to 18 yrs.)He would be treated differently if he won titles and had a long and successful post season career, but never won anything. You could also put Stan Musial on the list also, very little respect for his accomplishments compared to others.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by rats60

Go look at Ted Williams. He missed 5 years in the military, yet Black Ink Williams 122, Mantle 62. Williams used to be more than both Mantle and Robinson and now he is less. No one is saying that Mantles are going to drop, but Jackie catching him is definitely realistic.

I think Jackie catching Mantle's cards, outside the 52 is very realistic as well. I think Mantle's name will still be relevant, even as some time passes because of how often Trout's compared to The Mick.

I think the black ink argument is a little disingenuous to Mantle at least in terms of what we know of stats today, but that's a different argument, the only player in a post war era to mirror peak Ted production was Bonds and he did it with a little extra help. But both are arguments for a different discussion!

[Neal]

Originally Posted by seanofjapan

I tend to agree with this.

Mantle just doesn’t have any claim to importance other than having been the most popular player for a few years when a lot of baby boomers were kids and collected cards.

He isn’t Robinson who broke the color barrier.

He isn’t Ruth who revolutionized the game.

He isn’t seriously mentioned when arguments about the best player ever come up. Its hard to even make the case that he was the best player in his own time.

He didn’t set any major records.

It really does seem like his relative popularity in the hobby has nowhere to go but down once all the people who loved him when they were kids pass on and future generations ask themselves why this guy is so key.

I disagree completely. At the very least, his popularity remains the same. If Mantle becomes less popular in the hobby, the others follow.

Answering the OP .... I'd buy the best 52 Topps Mantle I could find. A close second would be a three pack of Jackie, 54 Aaron, and the Babe.

[investinrookies]

Nice 52T Mantles continue to set higher prices, an SGC 6 just sold for nearly $112k at hunt today. Centering and registration were good, the nicer examples are setting a new tier of pricing well beyond the current VCP averages and rightfully so for the card that defines the hobby.

[mrmopar]

Personally, I hope this is the case. I have never cared for Mantle all that much.
I have a few of his cards (56T was a must have) and always felt he was overpriced even when I was a kid. Mays, Aaron, Clemente, all seemingly better players overall, yet they have sat 2nd fiddle to the mighty Mick. I guess loving the Dodgers and hating the Yankees will do that to your mindset though. Oh, and I have a Leaf Robinson and no 52 T Mantle.

Originally Posted by rats60

It has tripled in value over the last year and is now the most valuable normal print run rookie card, passing the 51B Mantle. Only the 52T Mantle is more popular and expensive among cards with a normal print run. Mantle's popularity is based on being the star of 50s Yankees when card collecting became popular. Those kids grew up and drove the price of that card with their disposal income. As that generation dies off, it is up to further generations to drive demand, but they have no personal connection to that card.

Robinson's legacy is more lasting as the player who broke the color barrier. He has appeal that goes beyond sports and kids who collected cards. I wonder how much the current BLM and social justice movement has in the current run up in price and these things are not going away. There is also the potential for generations of minorities who have been depressed economically to see more disposal income because of these movements. It has been joked that card shows are a bunch of overweight old white men. What happens if they start to look more like America?

[cardsagain74]

I have never gotten the popularity of the '48 Leaf set. It looks like children made the drawings and designed the cards, with the Robinson being especially awful (what is going on with the darker shade of his neck and lots of his face)?

Even in black and white, the Bowman '48s are so superior. Especially since Berra and Musial are so underappreciated.