Wagner T206 Auctioned in 1981

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by chriskim

Come on guys!... pls don't flop this thread to against Mr. Lew Lipset. Lew is one of the legend!

Clearly you weren’t on the wrong end of one of his blatant misrepresentations, to put it nicely.

Great hobby books when there were none but that doesn’t give an excuse.

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

Clearly you weren’t on the wrong end of one of his blatant misrepresentations, to put it nicely.

Great hobby books when there were none but that doesn’t give an excuse.

That's a pretty harsh take for mine.

Back in the day dealers were all over the place in their descriptions of condition.....some were on the super generous side and a vg-ex card could arrive looking ex+ or better, others called a vg card ex+. Others were what we might call more orthodox in their estimations.

As long as you knew the dealer and their tendencies you had no problem, it wasn't as if their grading assignations changed card to card or week to week.
You knew quickly that they were consistently accurate to your estimations, undergraders or overgraders and you could then decide if the price matched your valuation.

This was waaaaay pre grading companies and people had their own preferences for what made a card attractive.
Back damage wasn't as vital if the paper loss was small, and great centering/registration/color could be considered more important than vg ish corners when assigning a grading opinion.

Think it's pretty poor calling out someone from that time and generation for their take on grading, or whether they were brusk in their social interactions.
Not everyone has to want to break bread and be a hobby friend to not get the name muddied on a collector forum, especially when taking in their contributions to said hobby.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

That's a pretty harsh take for mine..

I don’t need to quote everything

I’m not referring to the good old days prior to grading but rather 10 years or so ago. Too many folks ripped off on eBay and few would complain or make returns because “he’s one of the legends of the hobby” crap. He took that as a license to steal. Enough said.

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

I don’t need to quote everything

I’m not referring to the good old days prior to grading but rather 10 years or so ago. Too many folks ripped off on eBay and few would complain or make returns because “he’s one of the legends of the hobby” crap. He took that as a license to steal. Enough said.

I hope he sues your ass.

[Exhibitman]

Many of the pioneering dealers were surly, grumpy or just rude to collectors. These men just were not meant for a face to face business model. Mail order was more their speed. Goodwin Goldfadden, another famed early dealer, was horrible to kids and novices especially. Not really surprising since what they were doing was considered weird and perhaps a bit skeevy by the 99.9995% of Americans who had no idea there were card collectors. Same was true of a lot of other collectibles pioneering professionals: the people who gravitated towards those activities were not doing so because of their great social skills. Comic book shop operators, for example. This comic book dealer wasn't a card dealer but could've been and eventually was:



Or try an early Star Trek convention if you want to see some socially deficient people. I know because I was one of them...



As for when it became about the money, thank this guy:



His move from coins to cards was the best and worst thing that ever happened.

[Hankphenom]

As I remember it, dealers at the early shows and on the phone were the same mix of humanity you get anywhere, from the barely civil to the warm and helpful. In my one interaction with Mr. Mint, he was rude and I never spoke to him again. For several years, I would visit his table to say hello and chat with his helper ("The Exhibit Man,"--Steve Reeves, who had a shop in Kensington, Md, I frequented) and Rosen would never even look over. He would sit there with nothing to do looking in the opposite direction once he had seen that I didn't have anything to sell, just to be an asshole. I did enjoy watching him peel off hundred dollar bills, however, faster than the eye could follow, and remember feeling sorry for those who happened into his lair with their boxes full of stuff I knew they could do much better with at practically any other table at the show.

[milkit1]

I'm assuming the panel of 5 still exists. I saw at the National some years ago. It supposedly came directly from Wagner. Anyone know where it is now?
http://www.t206museum.com/page/periodical_32.html
This is the last I've seen of it
https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...brings-316250/

[rats60]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

I don’t need to quote everything

I’m not referring to the good old days prior to grading but rather 10 years or so ago. Too many folks ripped off on eBay and few would complain or make returns because “he’s one of the legends of the hobby” crap. He took that as a license to steal. Enough said.

If someone didn't look at the picture or return the card, that is on them, not the seller and it is not stealing. One poster grades the HoF Wagner and EX+, I grade it as VG, it has paper loss on two corners. It is one of the nicer Wagner's, but it is still VG. That doesn't imply anything negative, we just have different grading standards.

I would say the same about PSA and the other grading companies. I often disagree with the grades they assign to cards. I have had cards in the same submission that I have felt were undergraded while having a card I thought was overgraded. When buying I look at the scan. If I don't feel the grade by the TPG is correct, I pass on the card. It doesn't matter if it is Lew Lipset, who I bought quite of few cards from both at shows and thru the mail, or some new dealer that I have never done business with. With raw cards I have no problem returning a card if the condition isn't reflected in the picture and description.

[robertsmithnocure]

Originally Posted by rats60

If someone didn't look at the picture or return the card, that is on them, not the seller and it is not stealing. One poster grades the HoF Wagner and EX+, I grade it as VG, it has paper loss on two corners. It is one of the nicer Wagner's, but it is still VG. That doesn't imply anything negative, we just have different grading standards.

VG? Wow, it looks nicer than that to me, unless it has wrinkle that I am not seeing. I wish that all of my VG cards looked like that.

[Dpeck100]

So trimming in 1981 was perfectly acceptable?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by robertsmithnocure

VG? Wow, it looks nicer than that to me, unless it has wrinkle that I am not seeing. I wish that all of my VG cards looked like that.

Do you not see the top layer of paper is missing on two of the corners?

[robertsmithnocure]

Originally Posted by rats60

Do you not see the top layer of paper is missing on two of the corners?

Yes. It looks like typical T206 corner wear to me.