The One That Got Away

Kevin · #1 10-24-2020, 11:27 AM

There are a few stories that stand out in my mind. Reading what you guys have stated, it seems we have all similar stories. I was born in 1973, got really into collecting cards in 1980 as I have a smattering of 1978 Burger King, a few 1979 Topps and then a lot of 1980 Topps. I peaked in 1981 as I have tons and tons of Topps, Fleer and Donruss.

Dad started taking me to card shows around the same time. He collected Brooklyn Dodgers and StL Browns. One show, I think in Massapequa, Allie Reynolds and Mel Stottlemyer were signing autorgraphs. Dad was telling me a story about Cookie Lavagetto breaking up Bill Bevens World Series no hitter while we were online. The next day, the Sunday Newsday ran a long piece based on our conversation. Not sure if dad still has that, but the writer must have been behind us and thought it was a nostalgic type puff piece. He never let me look at the T206 sets, or simply ignored them, focusing mostly on the Dodgers, Browns and 62 Mets cards. One day, while he was talking to a dealer, I bought an old, beat up Irv Young! My first T206!

So, where was I? My 6 and 4 year old are downstairs, so I really have to make this quick as they are driving my wife crazy on this Saturday afternoon. Fast forward to mid 1980s. Now my uncle covered the Pirates for the Pittsburgh Post Gazette from 1966-86 (previously, he covered both baseball and football Giants for the Journal American and Long Island Press). We were a "baseball family" and took the journey up to Cooperstown from Long Island a few times in the mid 80s. Again, we stopped at yard sales and tag sales and I bought old cards along the way. So, we were up in Cooperstown in the mid 80s and Larry Fritsch had just opened up his Baseball Card Museum there. I had $100 from a paper route I worked and I was thinking I was going to buy some cool retro hats or other memorabilia. I wasn't expecting a "Baseball Card" museum.

Now for some reason, there wasn't a lot of action in the Larry Fritsch's place that day. It must have been brand new; the place was freshly painted. I don't recall how the following set of events happened, but we met Larry Fritsch and he invited us behind the scene. There were tons and tons of old baseball cards. He must have thought dad was a high roller. There we were, in a big back room, looking at all these 70-80 year old cards. And then he shows us "The Doyle". Now, this is a 35 year old memory, but I believe the story he was telling us was that he "discovered" the error. He had one on display up there, but he had a few in the back room that he , get this, let my father and I handle. At the time, I knew about "Donruss errors" and was collecting Buck Martinez with the reversed "Brewers" or Paul Spittorff from 1981! But the Joe Doyle and its significance was definitely lost on me. If it was lost on me, it was definitely lost on dad. I think he offered one to dad for a couple of thousand. Dad passed. (I recently brought this story up to dad and he has no recollection.). This is not the "missed out" part of the story, however.

So, we come out from behind the museum and store and Larry has: 5 T206s for sale: Evers, Chance, Matthewson, 2 Cobbs (red). I only had the $100 or so on me, and then dad, ever the business man, goes into action: Evers was $50, Chance was $60, Matthewson $70 and Cobb (A) was $225 and Cobb (B) was $250. So, dad negotiates $400 for 4. (Not much of a deal, thinking back now, but I think dad was happy). But which Cobb? Dad differed to me. Do I take the Cobb with the paper loss on the back for $225 or do I go for the intact Cobb for $250? I remember feeling guilty the dad was spending so much money. I went with the lesser Cobb. And as you have written above, it is a decision that has bothered me to this day. I have talked to dad about it afterwards and he always said, "You can trade up for a better Cobb". I don't think I'll part with him, but I think about that deal a lot.

A few things: can you guys either debunk or verify the Larry Fritsch story he told us about "discovering the Joe Doyle"? We spend about an hour with the man and he had a personality.

I have another story from a few years later. It might be a worse story. It involves W551 cards. Cringe worthy story about innocence and honesty triumphing over the devil on your shoulder...

Yoda · #2 10-24-2020, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

There are a few stories that stand out in my mind. Reading what you guys have stated, it seems we have all similar stories. I was born in 1973, got really into collecting cards in 1980 as I have a smattering of 1978 Burger King, a few 1979 Topps and then a lot of 1980 Topps. I peaked in 1981 as I have tons and tons of Topps, Fleer and Donruss.

Dad started taking me to card shows around the same time. He collected Brooklyn Dodgers and StL Browns. One show, I think in Massapequa, Allie Reynolds and Mel Stottlemyer were signing autorgraphs. Dad was telling me a story about Cookie Lavagetto breaking up Bill Bevens World Series no hitter while we were online. The next day, the Sunday Newsday ran a long piece based on our conversation. Not sure if dad still has that, but the writer must have been behind us and thought it was a nostalgic type puff piece. He never let me look at the T206 sets, or simply ignored them, focusing mostly on the Dodgers, Browns and 62 Mets cards. One day, while he was talking to a dealer, I bought an old, beat up Irv Young! My first T206!

So, where was I? My 6 and 4 year old are downstairs, so I really have to make this quick as they are driving my wife crazy on this Saturday afternoon. Fast forward to mid 1980s. Now my uncle covered the Pirates for the Pittsburgh Post Gazette from 1966-86 (previously, he covered both baseball and football Giants for the Journal American and Long Island Press). We were a "baseball family" and took the journey up to Cooperstown from Long Island a few times in the mid 80s. Again, we stopped at yard sales and tag sales and I bought old cards along the way. So, we were up in Cooperstown in the mid 80s and Larry Fritsch had just opened up his Baseball Card Museum there. I had $100 from a paper route I worked and I was thinking I was going to buy some cool retro hats or other memorabilia. I wasn't expecting a "Baseball Card" museum.

Now for some reason, there wasn't a lot of action in the Larry Fritsch's place that day. It must have been brand new; the place was freshly painted. I don't recall how the following set of events happened, but we met Larry Fritsch and he invited us behind the scene. There were tons and tons of old baseball cards. He must have thought dad was a high roller. There we were, in a big back room, looking at all these 70-80 year old cards. And then he shows us "The Doyle". Now, this is a 35 year old memory, but I believe the story he was telling us was that he "discovered" the error. He had one on display up there, but he had a few in the back room that he , get this, let my father and I handle. At the time, I knew about "Donruss errors" and was collecting Buck Martinez with the reversed "Brewers" or Paul Spittorff from 1981! But the Joe Doyle and its significance was definitely lost on me. If it was lost on me, it was definitely lost on dad. I think he offered one to dad for a couple of thousand. Dad passed. (I recently brought this story up to dad and he has no recollection.). This is not the "missed out" part of the story, however.

So, we come out from behind the museum and store and Larry has: 5 T206s for sale: Evers, Chance, Matthewson, 2 Cobbs (red). I only had the $100 or so on me, and then dad, ever the business man, goes into action: Evers was $50, Chance was $60, Matthewson $70 and Cobb (A) was $225 and Cobb (B) was $250. So, dad negotiates $400 for 4. (Not much of a deal, thinking back now, but I think dad was happy). But which Cobb? Dad differed to me. Do I take the Cobb with the paper loss on the back for $225 or do I go for the intact Cobb for $250? I remember feeling guilty the dad was spending so much money. I went with the lesser Cobb. And as you have written above, it is a decision that has bothered me to this day. I have talked to dad about it afterwards and he always said, "You can trade up for a better Cobb". I don't think I'll part with him, but I think about that deal a lot.

A few things: can you guys either debunk or verify the Larry Fritsch story he told us about "discovering the Joe Doyle"? We spend about an hour with the man and he had a personality.

I have another story from a few years later. It might be a worse story. It involves W551 cards. Cringe worthy story about innocence and honesty triumphing over the devil on your shoulder...

Larry Fritch was indeed the Godfather of the Joe Doyle variation. As the story goes, he discovered the Doyle "Nat'l" variation while going through a bunch of recently acquired T206's, knew he had something special and quietly began began to advertise in the hobby press offering to buy any and all Joe Doyle cards without mentioning what he highly suspected was a new variation. After buying multiple copies of the regular Doyle, another "National" was finally received and the legend was born.

My own personal story is a Joe Jackson Texas Tommy, which is too painful to relate.

Rhotchkiss · #3 10-24-2020, 03:01 PM

I had a chance to buy Orlando�s (former member�s) entire Cobb postcard collection. But I didn�t really understand or collect postcards at the time, so I bought a rose company, a sepia, and the wagner-cobb sepia. Meanwhile, I have been chasing Cobb postcards ever since.

packs · #4 10-24-2020, 03:15 PM

I've been going to the White Plains shows since they were the Gloria Rothstein shows. A guy there had a table with a set of 52 Topps in binders on it. There was one binder that was the expensive binder and another that was $20 a card.

He stepped away and had his friend watch his table for him. I asked to see the $20 binder of cards. His friend handed me the expensive one by mistake. I picked out an Eddie Mathews and Bill Dickey and was just about to hand him my $40 when some nosy jerk next to me said "You're selling that Mathews for $20?"

The guy pulled out his guide and swifty took the cards back from me. I'm sure his friend was happy.

Oh, and before I get accused of fleecing, I was 9 or 10 at the time and only realized how much the cards were worth after the fact.

Seven · #5 10-24-2020, 04:30 PM

Nothing too egregious from what I remember. Granted I did go to card shows as a kid, and most likely walked right past the tobacco cards, because 10 year old me was certainly not interested in blowing his birthday and christmas money on some old dead guys like Cobb.

Recently, A few months back Dan Hicks on here, had a very nice 3.5 51 Mantle for sale. At the time I couldn't swing it. Didn't have the cash. If only I had then, what I had now, I would've been able to afford it. Live and learn I suppose. Another one, just as nice, will hopefully come up.

CobbSpikedMe · #6 10-24-2020, 04:44 PM

When I was a kid, I knew about tobacco cards and t206 specifically, but thought they had to cost a fortune. So at shows, I wouldn't even think to look for them, even to just see them in person. I convinced myself they must be so rare that nobody at the show would have one and even if they did it would be in a think-ass screw down holder with a huge price tag on it. Years later, of course, I learned that not only were these famous t206 cards at those shows, but they were fairly cheap and, even with my modest sum of cash, I could have bought some of them. I have regretted missing all those opportunities to buy them back then ever since. If I knew I could buy them, and HOFers no less, I would've saved all my money for each show and bought as many as I could. Instead, I ended up with a bunch for 80's era junk wax crap that I still have.

darkhorse9 · #7 10-24-2020, 04:55 PM

Okay, not baseball related but....my Dad worked for Hilton and we actually lived in Hilton Hotels growing up.
During my youth I met tons of celebrities who were staying at the hotel, except one. I remember my Dad asking if I wanted to meet Elvis Presley, but I was too busy playing with my baseball cards and said No

Still cringe at passing on that one.

Kevin · #8 10-25-2020, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda

Larry Fritch was indeed the Godfather of the Joe Doyle variation. As the story goes, he discovered the Doyle "Nat'l" variation while going through a bunch of recently acquired T206's, knew he had something special and quietly began began to advertise in the hobby press offering to buy any and all Joe Doyle cards without mentioning what he highly suspected was a new variation. After buying multiple copies of the regular Doyle, another "National" was finally received and the legend was born.

My own personal story is a Joe Jackson Texas Tommy, which is too painful to relate.

How many "Joe Doyle - National" exist? Larry Fritsch actually allowed my father and I to handle one. I am new here, it is a 35 year old memory now, but does that sound like something Larry Fritsch would do? Or am I completely misremembering the event and "doyle"? Perhaps it was "Plank" or "Magie" he let us hold?

bmattioli · #9 10-25-2020, 05:08 PM

The 1986/87 Fleer Basketball will always haunt me.. I could have had all I wanted for $5.00 a box back then as nobody wanted them..

Baseball Rarities · #10 10-25-2020, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

How many "Joe Doyle - National" exist? Larry Fritsch actually allowed my father and I to handle one. I am new here, it is a 35 year old memory now, but does that sound like something Larry Fritsch would do? Or am I completely misremembering the event and "doyle"? Perhaps it was "Plank" or "Magie" he let us hold?

I think that there are less than 10 known examples. It is quite possible that Larry allowed you to handle one of his. Where did you meet up with him at?

Kevin · #11 10-25-2020, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

I think that there are less than 10 known examples. It is quite possible that Larry allowed you to handle one of his. Where did you meet up with him at?

We were up and Cooperstown and he had opened up a "baseball card" museum. He definitely had one on display for the public to see. My dad and I, he was mid 40s and I was 11 or 12, were complete random people to him. I wonder if he thought dad had money. Honestly, the "Doyle" was completely lost on me. I wanted to see the Wagner. I don't remember seeing one there. I know the HoF had one around that time, not sure if it was the day we met Larry Fritsch.

rats60 · #12 10-25-2020, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

How many "Joe Doyle - National" exist? Larry Fritsch actually allowed my father and I to handle one. I am new here, it is a 35 year old memory now, but does that sound like something Larry Fritsch would do? Or am I completely misremembering the event and "doyle"? Perhaps it was "Plank" or "Magie" he let us hold?

There are 9 known. Fritsch owned at least two.

clydepepper · #13 10-25-2020, 06:06 PM

In the mid-1970's I passed up an Aaron RC at $25

I passed on several '52 Mantles long before that price exploded.

Kevin · #14 10-25-2020, 06:05 PM

We were in the old house on Southview Avenue in Wantagh, so this was somewhere between 1985-89. I was in my early teens. Dad brought home a box full of old cards. This box was probably the size of a box you get from a liquor store when you are moving. Definitely bigger that a shoe box. I was familiar with T206s, the T205s, the Goudys. But these were sort of ugly. They were strewn and tossed into the box with very little care. Basically hundreds of cards dumped into a box. Dad's task for me: pick one for his friend to choose.

Dad was born in 1940. His father was a criminal reporter for one of the many newspapers in NYC at the time. He had no byline. My family suspects that he was friendly with the criminals he was reporting on. His brother, Harry, was the ghost writer on Murder Incorporated and only got the "dedication page". Apparently, Harry coined the phrase "Murder Incorporated, When he left the publishers office the day he heard he wasn't going to get authorship of the book, he apparently died of a heart attack on the streets of Manhattan. Dad's brother was 15 years older than him. He was a recipient of the Taylor Spink Award in the late 90s. Covered the baseball and football Giants in NYC from 1951 until they moved, then covered the Yankees a bit. Apparently he was offered Jack Lang's job when the Mets came to town, but turned it down. He moved to Pittsburgh and covered the Pirates from 66-86.

So dad. Dad was/is a frustrated author. He didn't put in the work and didn't really get along with his brother so, I guess, he went down another path. The path of a salesman. He worked at Honeywell in the 60s, opened up an insurance agency in Glendale, went bankrupt, worked for Wallace and then, in 1977 another pharmaceutical company based in Germany.

My sister (50 years old) and I (47) went to every Mets or Islanders game possible. Dad was a Jets season ticket holder, an Islander season ticket holder. We also went to 20 or so Met games a year. Now quarantine hit and everyone is posting pictures of ticket stubs they saved. I was getting some serious FOMO so, in May, I went to my folks house and went into my old bedroom and searched for ticket stubs. We had moved from my childhood home in 1990 and I moved out in 1995. Mom is a neat freak. What were the chances that the stubs would still be there? Well, they were! I started posting my stubs. Man, Mike Bossy scored a ton of goals. I picked like 5 random games from the ticket stubs I found and he scored like 14 goals total in those games. Anyway, it dawned on me that as a pharmaceutical salesman, dad probably wrote all those games off on an expense account! BRILLIANT

But I digress...so dad's backstory of being a sports nut, being a pharmaceutical salesman, having access sort of leads to the W551s. Dad called on a wholesale pharmacist named Sid. Sid was a lot of things. Quite a smarmy fellow. But it definitely was "you scratch my back, I scratch yours". Sid was pretty hard to take, but it was business and a commission check that counted, I gather. He was a sports fan and dad had access to tickets. (Actually there is a funny story about Game 4 of the NLCS that I could tell, but I've gotten sidetracked at least 6 times here).

So Sid did someone a favor. And in return, the client gave Sid a big box of old cards and told him to pick one card to keep. Sid had no idea what the cards were. He knew my dad and I were going to shows and collecting, but we were really collecting things that interested my dad: 1950s Bowman Browns, mid 50s Brooklyn Dodgers, 1962 Mets and assorted stars. (And no Yankees.). I probably already had Irv Young, Cobb, Matthewson, Evers, Chance. I knew that set well. But these funny cards, I had really no clue. Dad surmised that they must have been cut from the back of a cereal box. I sorted through them. I put them in order. There were Cobbs, Johnsons, Ruths and Joe Jackson. There were other guys I recognized too. Now I knew the legend of Joe Jackson. There were two in there. I picked one of the Jackson's for Sid. I told my dad that I never saw a Joe Jackson card and that would be the one I'd pick.

[Side note: I was going to Maria Regina Roman Catholic School at the time and truly believed in a higher power watching our actions. I also had this fear of my father. So in the back of my mind, I was thinking my dad was "testing" me with these cards. How would he wind up with hundreds of old cards? I honestly thought he was going to come up and say that these were for me. That someone gave them to him.]

So I gave the box back to dad. I was hoping against hope that he'd tell me to keep a few. He took note of the Jackson. And that was it.

A week later, I was in the basement. Actually, I was always in the basement, so this is odd. Remember I said there were doubles? I found a Ruth and Jackson card from the batch. Now I swear, I thought my father was testing me. I also had this Judeo-Christian guilt drilled into me by this time. Like an honest and wholesome person, I turned them over to my father. Again, I thought he'd say, "Keep them". But he didn't. He took them and said, "Ok" and took them from me.

I wish I could say I "did the right thing". Knowing now what I know about my father: he had absolutely no clue about those cards being there. Judging by the state the cards were in when I received them, my dad being oblivious, Sid being somewhat contemptible, I should have taken a handful of those cards and preserved them for future generations.

How did Sid get these cards? What is that back story? He did a family a favor regarding medication/perscriptions? The person that had this box of cards kept them for 60+ years. If it was the original owner, they were in their 70s at the time?

Yes, this is a big regret. I wonder if those cards ever got any love. I wonder what happened to the cards I "chose" for Sid. I should google him and find out if he's still alive.

EDIT: Alive and well in Ohio. I should reach out.