1979 Gretzky's PSA 10

[Dpeck100]

https://youtu.be/66yNvHeePq4

This is the guy who had them listed and who must have consigned them.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

https://youtu.be/66yNvHeePq4

This is the guy who had them listed and who must have consigned them.

I have seen this video before, but I totally forgot about his Gretzky! Well done, Peck!

I don't agree with this guy. He stated that the GOAT in football can always be debated. For example, some say it's Brady, others say it is Barry Sanders, others say Elway, etc. But in hockey, according to him, there is no debate. Now first of all, how can anyone compare a QB to a WR or a RB? It just wouldn't make sense to say that Jim Brown will always be better than Tom Brady. I think the same thing can be said about hockey. Yes, Gretzky is the greatest forward of all-time. However, the greatest d-man will always be Bobby Orr. And the greatest goalie? Now that would make an interesting debate!

[Tomi]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

I have seen this video before, but I totally forgot about his Gretzky! Well done, Peck!

I don't agree with this guy. He stated that the GOAT in football can always be debated. For example, some say it's Brady, others say it is Barry Sanders, others say Elway, etc. But in hockey, according to him, there is no debate. Now first of all, how can anyone compare a QB to a WR or a RB? It just wouldn't make sense to say that Jim Brown will always be better than Tom Brady. I think the same thing can be said about hockey. Yes, Gretzky is the greatest forward of all-time. However, the greatest d-man will always be Bobby Orr. And the greatest goalie? Now that would make an interesting debate!

Look at it this way in terms of GOAT in Hockey. Gretzky played on the most stacked team ever and scored and passed all day winning scoring titles but was non existent on defense. Orr was defenseman of the year 8 straight years AND won scoring titles AND MVP's as the best scorer of his era. He was defenseman of the year and was at the top of the scoring leaders every year also. The first 100 assist season was accomplished by Orr, a defenseman. Orr is the ONLY player in the sports history to do this. Not even an argument for me as who is the GOAT. He is undoubtedly the #1 5 tool player the sport has ever seen.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Here's one list anyhow. I am guessing Hasek tops more lists than anyone else.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...es-of-all-time

[Tomi]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Here's one list anyhow. I am guessing Hasek tops more lists than anyone else.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...es-of-all-time

I would have no problem with Hasek at #1.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Here's one list anyhow. I am guessing Hasek tops more lists than anyone else.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...es-of-all-time

I would say that is definitely not the general consensus among the hockey cognoscenti. Comparing goaltenders of past generations is difficult, and considering Hasek played in an era dominated by two better netminders in both Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur, I don't think the appellation of greatest of all time could possibly be bestowed when he wasn't even the best of his generation.

ONE of the greatest all-time, of course, the absolute best though? I don't think so...

[Tomi]

[QUOTE=Huysmans;2030198]I would say that is definitely not the general consensus among the hockey cognoscenti. Comparing goaltenders of past generations is difficult, and considering Hasek played in an era dominated by two better netminders in both Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur, I don't think the appellation of greatest of all time could possibly be bestowed when he wasn't even the best of his generation.

Hasek beats both in career save %, GAA and total Vezinas (6 to Brodeurs 4 and Roy's 3 ). All this while a rookie at 26 yrs. old. Pretty solid case. Even won a couple of Hart's.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I would bet Hasek is on top of more lists than any other goalie, which is all I said.

Here's another.
https://www.thetoptens.com/best-ice-hockey-goalies/

[Huysmans]

[QUOTE=Tomi;2030250]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

I would say that is definitely not the general consensus among the hockey cognoscenti. Comparing goaltenders of past generations is difficult, and considering Hasek played in an era dominated by two better netminders in both Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur, I don't think the appellation of greatest of all time could possibly be bestowed when he wasn't even the best of his generation.

Hasek beats both in career save %, GAA and total Vezinas (6 to Brodeurs 4 and Roy's 3 ). All this while a rookie at 26 yrs. old. Pretty solid case. Even won a couple of Hart's.

Both Roy and Brodeur had longer careers and were more consistent. And each were more successful during the playoffs when it matters most. And you mention GAA and save %, with the difference between the trio miniscule.

Brodeur is the only goaltender in history with eight 40-win seasons, while Roy is the only goaltender to win a trio of Conn Smythe trophies - arguably the most prestigious award in the entire sport.

Additionally, Roy was selected as the greatest goaltender in NHL history by a panel of 41 writers, coupled with a simultaneous fan poll in 2004, while Brodeur is the NHL's all-time regular season leader in wins and shutouts.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Here's one list anyhow. I am guessing Hasek tops more lists than anyone else.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...es-of-all-time

Tony Esposito over Billy Smith? Curious list, indeed...

[Kevin]

For what it's worth,Lemieux could do everything Gretzky could. An added bonus was he was bigger. Also extra points for playing in the more physical Patrick Division vs the Smythe Division.

Who's ready to discuss 80s hockey? Let's go, boys...

[Oscar_Stanage]

Originally Posted by Kevin

For what it's worth,Lemieux could do everything Gretzky could. An added bonus was he was bigger. Also extra points for playing in the more physical Patrick Division vs the Smythe Division.

Who's ready to discuss 80s hockey? Let's go, boys...

i keep seeing these GOAT arguments around competition for Gretzky. To me it's not even a discussion. Gretzky shattered the points and assists records by such a long-shot that his goal breaking records are an afterthought, and often overlooked. He has more career assists than any other player has total points! Think about that. On top of this, he is also the greatest goal scorer. What more are you looking for, lol.

I think the Hull/Lemieux arguments are crazy, but I always like to listen to what other people have to say.
Gretzky is the most dominant athlete in any sport.. Ever. I don't want to hear about golf, i am talking sports.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Tomi

Look at it this way in terms of GOAT in Hockey. Gretzky played on the most stacked team ever and scored and passed all day winning scoring titles but was non existent on defense. Orr was defenseman of the year 8 straight years AND won scoring titles AND MVP's as the best scorer of his era. He was defenseman of the year and was at the top of the scoring leaders every year also. The first 100 assist season was accomplished by Orr, a defenseman. Orr is the ONLY player in the sports history to do this. Not even an argument for me as who is the GOAT. He is undoubtedly the #1 5 tool player the sport has ever seen.

This is essentially the argument you will get from most Bostonians. I'm not sure that many people anywhere else buy it though.

[Tomi]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

This is essentially the argument you will get from most Bostonians. I'm not sure that many people anywhere else buy it though.

Just a common sense argument for me. Played at the highest level on offense AND defense. Pretty much a no brainier for me.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

This is essentially the argument you will get from most Bostonians. I'm not sure that many people anywhere else buy it though.

I am not from Boston and I agree with Orr as the GOAT. Could the GOAT in baseball be a DH? I would rather have a complete player over a one dimensional one.

[shagrotn77]

Gretzky is the GOAT in any team sport and it's not even close. I'm so tired of the Bobby Orr guys trying to push their greatest of all time agenda. Yes, he was spectacular...for 6 years. Gretzky checks every damn box when it comes to greatness. Regular season records. Career records. Championships. Making his teammates better. People like to say he wasn't great on defense. Guess what - he wasn't paid to play defense!!!

[Tomi]

Originally Posted by shagrotn77

Gretzky is the GOAT in any team sport and it's not even close. I'm so tired of the Bobby Orr guys trying to push their greatest of all time agenda. Yes, he was spectacular...for 6 years. Gretzky checks every damn box when it comes to greatness. Regular season records. Career records. Championships. Making his teammates better. People like to say he wasn't great on defense. Guess what - he wasn't paid to play defense!!!

9 years not 6. The GOAT is a 5 tool player, something Gretzky never was. His numbers were nothing in LA compared to what he did in Edmonton where everyone on his line was an all star. At least Gretzky was able to win many Lady Bing trophies as the nicest player.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Tomi

Look at it this way in terms of GOAT in Hockey. Gretzky played on the most stacked team ever and scored and passed all day winning scoring titles but was non existent on defense. Orr was defenseman of the year 8 straight years AND won scoring titles AND MVP's as the best scorer of his era. He was defenseman of the year and was at the top of the scoring leaders every year also. The first 100 assist season was accomplished by Orr, a defenseman. Orr is the ONLY player in the sports history to do this. Not even an argument for me as who is the GOAT. He is undoubtedly the #1 5 tool player the sport has ever seen.

I agree, and considering how short Orr's career was due to injuries from not being protected like Gretzky was, one can only imagine the feats he would have accomplished if he was.

[Tomi]

Originally Posted by irv

I agree, and considering how short Orr's career was due to injuries from not being protected like Gretzky was, one can only imagine the feats he would have accomplished if he was.

The crazy thing is that Orr in only 9 seasons had a higher career +/- than Gretzky in a 20 year career.
Needless to say, both are 2 of the best and they are incredible on and off the ice.