T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hey guys,
I have to differ with you.

The T206 Honus Wagner is a 150-only Series subject. All the subjects on the sheet in Post #1073 are 150/350 Series subjects.
Therefore, it is impossible that Wagner was printed on that sheet with those cards.

Furthermore, this 5 card strip.....



......is NOT an authentic production piece. It is simply a strip of "proof" cards which American Lithographic (ALC) put together.
The story goes that ALC did this, gave it to Wagner in order to persuade him to permit them to print his image on T206 cards.

Note....that Brown, Bowerman, Kling and Cy Young cards are missing colors on their uniforms. This certainly tells us that this
strip is not a standard production piece.


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
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I don't understand this reasoning, all of the other 150 only subjects were
pulled prior to the transition to the 350 printing except for Brown (Chicago),
Magie and Wagner. Wagner was pulled quickly so I don't think it's a stretch
to say he was on a sheet with 150/350 subjects and it's
almost certain that he was. You yourself have stated many times that you
think he was on the same sheet as Plank who is a 150/350 subject.

I only stated that he might have been on this sheet based on the Wagner strip. I'm not sure what the odds are but they have to be pretty high
that out of 150+ subjects the three subjects from the strip that have confirmed plate scratches are in the exact same position on this plate scratch sheet as they are on the strip.

#2 sheet Wagner strip.jpg

[tedzan]

American Lithographic initially printed 12 subjects on a sheet which were the first T206's (issued circa Spring/Summer 1909). Depicted here are these 12 guys............






The above 10 subjects were issued with these 5 backs......





The Wagner and Plank were printed with PIEDMONT 150 and SWEET CAPORAL 150 (Factory #25 & #30)......but, were issued only with the SWEET CAP brand.

. .




Furthermore, for a very short period, American Litho continued issuing the Plank card (with the SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory #30 back) against Eddie's wishes.

Eddie Plank was very anti-tobacco (in any form) **


Pat R
You are entitled to your opinion. However, as I see this, the Plank card is a true 150-only Series card. As is the Honus Wagner card.



** Note...... Documented in Connie Mack's Biography (by Norman L. Macht)


TED Z

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[Pat R]

Ted

We do have different opinions on many things in the t206 set but it's not
an opinion that Plank is a 150/350 subject it is a fact.

150 only means exactly what it states only printed with 150 series backs.
Not only was Plank printed with a SC350/30 back of all the know examples
there are twice as many SC350/30 backs as there are Piedmont and Sweet
Caporal 150 backs.

In this Plank Gallery of the examples with back images there are 16 PD150
and SC150's and 34 SC350/30's.

http://www.t206resource.com/Plank-Gallery.html

[steve B]

Some cards in the 150's were printed three different times.
And I'm fairly certain that the masters were changed between the 150 and 350 series, and that the first P350's were done on leftover sheets from 150 production.
350's also were redone, maybe also 3 times, but usually the adjustments were less obvious.

The 150, 150/350 thing is a start, but a simplification that we should let go.

[tedzan]

Hey guys,

Well, I am going to repeat here (for those who have not heard this before) what I've mentioned about this subject
several times in the past on this forum. The Plank card is a unique oddity in the T206 set. Here is how it starts......

As I've mentioned above (Post #1080) and numerous times in the past, Eddie Plank disdained any form of tobacco.
He informed ATC that he did not want his image on their Tobacco card. I researched all this years ago, including a
conversation with a Philadelphia lawyer, who informed me that you needed only a "cease and desist" order in 1909
to prevent your image from appearing on anything that offended you. Plank is depicted on numerous E-type Candy
cards during that period. The only other Tobacco card he appears on is the 1909 Ramly. At the end of his Major Lge.
career (circa 1916) he's featured in the T216 Tobacco cards (KOTTON, MINO, VIRGINIA EXTRA brands). These were
not ATC brands. The images on these card are from the printing firm which produced the E90-type cards.

The T206 Plank card cannot be referred to as a "150/350" card since it was NOT printed with any combination of
EPDG, OLD MILL, PIEDMONT 350, SOVEREIGN, TOLSTOI backs (as are most 150/350 subjects). The Plank card is
indeed a 150-only subject. Plank was on the same sheet that the famous Gretzky Wagner was cut from.

American Lithographic printing the Plank card with the SWEET CAP 350 Factory #30 back is most likely the result of
ATC's desire to continue featuring Plank in the T206 set. Plank was very popular by 1908. In his first 8 years he had
167 victories (a remarkable average of 21 games Won per season).

I could continue with more stuff regarding my research into the T206 Plank, however I think enough said for now. I
have more important things to attend to today, than my repetition of stories that I've said before on this forum.


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
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[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theories, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

Ted (Hi Ted), I think collectors opt for the OC Green Cobb in the 150 series (versus 350) because the ink and clarity is always better. Maybe Cy too.

Hi Mike

Very interesting. I only have 150 Series green Cobb's.

Comparing my PIEDMONT 150 and SOVEREIGN 150 green Cobb's, the images and green color appear very similar....and, very nice.






TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
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[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theories, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *




In 2007, I completed a basic set of 402 different SOVEREIGN cards in less than 11 months. Having accomplished this, I went on to doing an all - SOVEREIGN master set.
However, I found this challenge to be quite a frustrating experience. Certain 150/350 subjects are very difficult to find with SOVEREIGN 150 backs. Illustrated here is an
example of this enigma. It took me at least 2 years to get the 150 version of this Wiltse card. Other "toughies that come to mind are....Bell, Camnitz, Flick, Fielder Jones,
Weimer, etc. Anyway, I'm on my way to completing this 476-card master set.






TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
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