Wagner Auction

oldeboo · #1 11-01-2020, 04:30 PM

I've always found it interesting, but not surprising, how articles like this use the word rare in reference to the Wagner T206. I believe they said some form of rare 6 times in a very short article. There is zero doubt about the iconic nature of this card, the rarity of it in analyzing the T206 set as a whole, the stories, the supply vs. demand, etc. However, as someone that appreciates type cards, there are Wagner cards that are much more rare than his T206 card. Certainly believe the T206 card will only continue to rise in prices though.

Aunt Suzie would probably know what a Honus Wagner T206 is, surely not a Honus Wagner E105 Mello-Mint Throwing.

Dpeck100 · #2 11-01-2020, 04:38 PM

This card isn�t going down.

This is a status symbol and that is only going to continue to attract more interest and higher prices.

It�s a proven winner.

oldjudge · #3 11-01-2020, 05:06 PM

If the size of the collector base increases it may continue to appreciate. If the reverse happens it can go down in price. It's not a rare card, it is just scarcer than most T206s. If you want to see rare look at the 19thcentury. With 60-80 copies the Wagner is scarce at best.

Orioles1954 · #4 11-01-2020, 05:16 PM

It�s not even the rarest Wagner �T� card. It�s a status symbol piece for the rich that transcends the hobby

T206Collector · #5 11-02-2020, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

transcends the hobby

That's the right phrase. It can't fairly be compared to anything else in the hobby.

Tao_Moko · #6 11-01-2020, 06:07 PM

Like I said, I'm "probably wrong" but $1.4 for a card missing a corner and creases through the face? It's getting to the point that you could buy an actual work of art by a master(1/1) for a similar amount. I think we forget that this is print advertising and not "rare". It literally was printed , cut from a sheet and distributed in a pack of smokes.

Rhotchkiss · #7 11-01-2020, 06:44 PM

Here are some of my rarest Wagners- some are the only ones known, and many less than 5 known. I would rather have the t206 than all of these combined

seablaster · #8 11-01-2020, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Here are some of my rarest Wagners- some are the only ones known, and many less than 5 known.

Yabba Dabba Doo!

CobbSpikedMe · #9 11-01-2020, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Here are some of my rarest Wagners- some are the only ones known, and many less than 5 known. I would rather have the t206 than all of these combined

Just joking around a little with you Ryan, but you already have the T206 Wagner...and all those other rare ones.

hcv123 · #10 11-01-2020, 09:37 PM

As noted in a number of posts - there are many cards even of Wagner (Look at Ryans post for a nice selection!) that are much rarer (in lower supply) than the T206. That said, the one thing that the T206 set and the Wagner, in particular, have over all those other cards is exponentially greater demand! So there may be 57 or 67 or 80 Wagners, but there are many more than that number of people apparently with both the desire and the means to acquire it and the price continues to be driven up.
Many of the super rare (less than 5 known copies) are so obscure most collectors don't bother looking = lower demand and hence lower price relative to the T206 Wagner.

ValKehl · #11 11-01-2020, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Here are some of my rarest Wagners- some are the only ones known, and many less than 5 known. I would rather have the t206 than all of these combined

Not too shabby, Ryan, but I'd be really impressed if your Wags collage included a T214 Victory Tobacco.

Rhotchkiss · #12 11-01-2020, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Not too shabby, Ryan, but I'd be really impressed if your Wags collage included a T214 Victory Tobacco.

If I found one, no doubt PSA would grade it as authentic (spoiler alert - T214 Wagner does not exist); very few T cards of wagner exist.

Totally OT- here is a cool article about how/why Wagner and Plank are both super scarce on tobacco card issues even though they were mega stars

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spo...us-wagner/amp/

puckpaul · #13 11-02-2020, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Here are some of my rarest Wagners- some are the only ones known, and many less than 5 known. I would rather have the t206 than all of these combined

you are missing two, his rookie Natl copper plate, and his Sporting News following closely. my favorite Wagners such beautiful imagery...are their any other cards/premiums with written descriptions from the playing days even?

x2drich2000 · #14 11-02-2020, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puckpaul

you are missing two, his rookie Natl copper plate, and his Sporting News following closely. my favorite Wagners such beautiful imagery...are their any other cards/premiums with written descriptions from the playing days even?

Wow, very nice, is that Copper Plate in a full book?

Rhotchkiss · #15 11-02-2020, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puckpaul

you are missing two, his rookie Natl copper plate, and his Sporting News following closely. my favorite Wagners such beautiful imagery...are their any other cards/premiums with written descriptions from the playing days even?

I never understood the copper plates. What exactly are they? Do you have a link to a description/write-up/article? I have looked at a few sporting news over the year - tough to find not ripped (yours is great looking), but I don�t like that BVG is the only company that slabs them. As incompetent as PSA can be (slabbing a clear 1915 CJ reprint), I view BVG as being on par with GAI and I don�t want anything in a BVG slab.

Sean · #16 11-04-2020, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Here are some of my rarest Wagners- some are the only ones known, and many less than 5 known. I would rather have the t206 than all of these combined

+1.

Sean · #17 11-04-2020, 04:16 PM

When I began collecting 20 years ago I was told" No one has ever lost money on a Wagner." Twenty years later this has always been true.

brianp-beme · #18 11-04-2020, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Here are some of my rarest Wagners- some are the only ones known, and many less than 5 known. I would rather have the t206 than all of these combined

Incredible collection of Wagners...but I would rather have all of them instead of just the T206 Wagner. The T206 Wagner kinda bores me (gasp! heresy!)...it would be cool if more vintage cards shared its intense spotlight amongst the general population.

Brian

clydepepper · #19 11-08-2020, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Here are some of my rarest Wagners- some are the only ones known, and many less than 5 known. I would rather have the t206 than all of these combined

I'd rather have my three than tying up so much money in one card.

1906 FAN CRAZE HONUS WAGNER PSA-8.jpg 1911 M116 Sporting Life- Honus Wagner PSA-4.jpgATTACH]425208[/ATTACH]

clydepepper · #20 11-08-2020, 01:22 PM

puckpaul - Love your Hoy and Nichols.

But Dang, Leon - THAT BABE is a show-stopper!

CJinPA · #21 11-01-2020, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tao_Moko

Like I said, I'm "probably wrong" but $1.4 for a card missing a corner and creases through the face? It's getting to the point that you could buy an actual work of art by a master(1/1) for a similar amount. I think we forget that this is print advertising and not "rare". It literally was printed , cut from a sheet and distributed in a pack of smokes.

+1000

I love vintage but this is 100% fact.

ruth-gehrig · #22 11-01-2020, 08:18 PM

What was the previous sales record for a PSA 1 AND what did this example sale for the last time it sold??

Powell · #23 11-01-2020, 08:30 PM

I made thre times on my Wagner and it�s up about 30% since I sold it..

Huysmans · #24 11-02-2020, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tao_Moko

Like I said, I'm "probably wrong" but $1.4 for a card missing a corner and creases through the face? It's getting to the point that you could buy an actual work of art by a master(1/1) for a similar amount. I think we forget that this is print advertising and not "rare". It literally was printed , cut from a sheet and distributed in a pack of smokes.

The distinction between "rare" and "scarce" needs to be stated, as these words are often interchanged, which can be incorrect and misleading.

A card like the T206 Wagner is SOMEWHAT rare - dependent on what you're using as guidelines for "rare"...
while the card can rightfully be called EXPONENTIALLY scarce, as the number of individuals who covet an example - which is forever increasing - far exceed the known existing specimens.

drcy · #25 11-02-2020, 12:29 PM

Yes. Rarity is a measure of supply. Scarcity is a measure of demand versus supply. Scarcity is fairly represented in price value. The Mickey Mantle 52 Topps isn't rare, but its book values shows that is definitely scarce.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huysmans

The distinction between "rare" and "scarce" needs to be stated, as these words are often interchanged, which can be incorrect and misleading.

A card like the T206 Wagner is SOMEWHAT rare - dependent on what you're using as guidelines for "rare"...
while the card can rightfully be called EXPONENTIALLY scarce, as the number of individuals who covet an example - which is forever increasing - far exceed the known existing specimens.

Tao_Moko · #26 11-02-2020, 07:27 PM

Here are actual dictionary definitions:

Rare - (of a thing) not found in large numbers and consequently of interest or value.

Scarce - (especially of food, money, or some other resource) insufficient for the demand.

By definition they are not very distinguishable. Easy to say Wagner is both rare and scarce. My use of "rare" is specific to our hobby as I've always understood and best explained in David's explanation below. However, we've never quantified the two as a hobby standard. I would consider the Doyle to be rare and the Wagner as scarce but there is no standard to support my assignment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drcy

Yes. Rarity is a measure of supply. Scarcity is a measure of demand versus supply. Scarcity is fairly represented in price value. The Mickey Mantle 52 Topps isn't rare, but its book values shows that is definitely scarce.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #27 11-01-2020, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldeboo

I've always found it interesting, but not surprising, how articles like this use the word rare in reference to the Wagner T206. I believe they said some form of rare 6 times in a very short article. There is zero doubt about the iconic nature of this card, the rarity of it in analyzing the T206 set as a whole, the stories, the supply vs. demand, etc. However, as someone that appreciates type cards, there are Wagner cards that are much more rare than his T206 card. Certainly believe the T206 card will only continue to rise in prices though.

Aunt Suzie would probably know what a Honus Wagner T206 is, surely not a Honus Wagner E105 Mello-Mint Throwing.

I get what you're saying but it's not the rarity per se, but the rarity in comparison to almost every other T206 which is the most popular pre-war set (with apologies to 1933 Goudey) If there are 5000 of the average T206 (a number I'm pulling out of my... um out of thin air) and there are 67 Wagners (which I think is the real number) the population of Wagners is 1.3% of that of every other card.

Yes the MelloMint is rarer, but every Mello Mint is rare. The comparitive population of Wagners to others in that set is likely to be over 100% as there's a greater chance a super star like Wagner got saved as opposed to a common.

Also, the collector base Mello is infinitesimal in comparison to the base for a T206. As a percentage that compared supply and demand the T206 Wagner is, in essence, rarer than the Mello Mint.

brianp-beme · #28 11-01-2020, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I get what you're saying but it's not the rarity per se, but the rarity in comparison to almost every other T206 which is the most popular pre-war set (with apologies to 1933 Goudey) If there are 5000 of the average T206 (a number I'm pulling out of my... um out of thin air) and there are 67 Wagners (which I think is the real number) the population of Wagners is 1.3% of that of every other card.

Yes the MelloMint is rarer, but every Mello Mint is rare. The comparitive population of Wagners to others in that set is likely to be over 100% as there's a greater chance a super star like Wagner got saved as opposed to a common.

Also, the collector base Mello is infinitesimal in comparison to the base for a T206. As a percentage that compared supply and demand the T206 Wagner is, in essence, rarer than the Mello Mint.

Here is an old thread that discusses other Wagner cards during his career that are probably rarer than his T206 card:

https://net54baseball.com/showthread...ghlight=wagner

Brian

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