Very Interesting How Certain Stars are valued

[Seven]

Originally Posted by oldeboo

That's a good point for some of these players that are still relatable to people who watched them and have a first hand remembrance. To have watched Williams play you would probably be in your late 60s or older and Mantle in your late 50s or older. There are more people willing to unload a stack of cash for a childhood memory in the Mantle range as another factor. Is there a tiny Mantle bubble for that? In 40 years do the prices close on each other some? Interesting to think about.

I've actually had conversations about this with other collectors. Basically what it boils down to with Mantle, was that he was an American Icon, and a good portion of the people in the Hobby now were kids and grew up idolizing Mantle. In most cases, if they could have, they passed their love for the Mick down to their kids. Mickey is my primary collecting interest, his cards are really my collections centerpiece, and I was just over a year old, when he passed on.

I think a guy like Mantle maintains his value. I don't see his prices coming down anytime soon, the one thing I think we will see in the case of The Mick, is a lot more of his cards hitting the Market over the next decade or two. I think Mantle transcends the Hobby. It's a reason why his 52 Topps is so valuable, it's an iconic part of Americana. And sure his other cards are valuable, but nothing close to that card. For the price of a 52 in a PSA 1, you could pick up lower graded copies of his 51 Bowman, 52 Berk Ross, 52 Bowman, and probably still have money left over.

Eddie Collins really surprised me. I picked up one of his t206's earlier in the year, probably a little bit of an overpay too because I bought it in Cooperstown, but $200 for a man with over 3000 career hits and 700 steals is pure insanity to me. And to the Williams point, I'm going to try to tackle a complete run of his career, after a couple of my collecting goals are complete. I better start saving.

[jchcollins]

Mantle, at least since the early 1980's - and a hobby where there was a card shop starting to appear on every corner and not just mail trading and underground hotel shows - is a guy the rules don't apply to. He was the favorite collective player of the boomers that took the hobby public, in large part because he was perhaps the perfect player in terms of time and place fit that ever lived in baseball - New York City in the 1950's. Due respect, but those who don't get that about Mantle at this point likely aren't going to. It's not about what he did or didn't do in comparison to Ted Williams or Willie Mays on the field. It's a mystique. Mantle in the card hobby is more popular than anyone, and I'd include Ruth and Wagner on that list. It has as much to do with how the hobby developed as it does Mantle himself.

[Throttlesteer]

Player fame can definitely be tied to an iconic card as much a famous event or even a poem. I believe Mantle's 52 Topps has a fair amount to do with the values of his other cards. Sure, Teddy's 1939 Play ball is iconic to hard-core collectors. But it doesn't have the same recognition to casual fans and collectors. Outside of the T206 Wags, its the most famous baseball card.....for a number or reasons.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Throttlesteer

Player fame can definitely be tied to an iconic card as much a famous event or even a poem. I believe Mantle's 52 Topps has a fair amount to do with the values of his other cards. Sure, Teddy's 1939 Play ball is iconic to hard-core collectors. But it doesn't have the same recognition to casual fans and collectors. Outside of the T206 Wags, its the most famous baseball card.....for a number or reasons.

I would partially disagree with this. From the early 70s to the mid 80s the 1952 Topps Mantle was the most valuable Topps card and one of the top 5-10 cards in the hobby. Yet Mantle's other cards had similar values to Williams and Mays.

Mantle cards took off in value due to a group of east coast dealers buying up his cards. At a time when the hobby exploded, they marketed them to new collectors, many Yankee fans. This created demand from other collectors due to FOMO as they saw all up arrows in monthly Beckett price guides.

Now for new collectors today, I would agree that the 1952 Topps Mantle is a factor drawing collectors to his cards. It is the face of Postwar modern cards, a card that collectors desire. It is natural for collectors to be drawn to his other cards because of that.

[packs]

You have to be more than just good. George Sisler was about as fine a hitter as there was but who cares, right?

Then there's a guy like Satchel Paige. He only played 5 seasons and one game of a 6th. There are no quantifiable stats that would suggest he was one of the greatest pitchers of all time. But he has a story and he has anecdotes and he has a general mystique around him that make his 3 available cards very expensive.

[trdcrdkid]

Originally Posted by packs

Then there's a guy like Satchel Paige. He only played 5 seasons and one game of a 6th. There are no quantifiable stats that would suggest he was one of the greatest pitchers of all time. But he has a story and he has anecdotes and he has a general mystique around him that make his 3 available cards very expensive.

Actually, there are now pretty good statistics available for the Negro Leagues, thanks to the researchers for the Seamheads Negro Leagues Database. They show Paige in a close competition with Smokey Joe Williams as the greatest pitcher in Negro Leagues history.

https://www.seamheads.com/NegroLgs/p...rID=paige01sat

https://www.seamheads.com/NegroLgs/h...tab=metrics_at

[rats60]

Stan Musial is another guy that is really under valued compared to ability. Collecting in the 60s, Williams and Musial were the most sought after cards. Next was Mays and Koufax then Mantle. I think Mantle's value comes down to one thing. He played for the Yankees. Areas without local teams produced a lot of Yankee fans because they won. They also had a tradition of great players before Mantle - Ruth, Gehrig and DiMaggio.

[jchcollins]

To me of all the all time greats who somewhat fell of the radar in terms of the hobby since the 80's, it's Musial whose treatment is almost criminal. Guy was easily a top 3 player of his era. 3 MVP's, 7 batting titles? And for his later cards in midgrade, some aren't much more than pocket change. I don't mind that I can afford them, but it does seem harsh in looking at their values compared to Clemente or Aaron.