Breaking News - Cleveland Indians

mr2686 · #1 12-14-2020, 04:01 PM

We should probably get rid of the Padres name to appease the atheists too.

perezfan · #2 12-14-2020, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr2686

We should probably get rid of the Padres name to appease the atheists too.

And while we're at it, let's rename another SoCal team...

The Los Angeles Agnostics of Anaheim

Mark17 · #3 12-14-2020, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

And while we're at it, let's rename another SoCal team...

I thought you were talking about USC. Their name might be offensive to people who don't practice safe sex.

The-Cardfather · #4 12-14-2020, 11:46 PM

Unless I missed it, I'm surprised that no one on the board suggested "Cleveland Spiders"(in homage to the 1800s team of the same name).

But I'm sure that a group of arachnophobes would find it offensive.

BillyCoxDodgers3B · #5 12-14-2020, 11:52 PM

The whole concept of baseball is personally offensive. I identify as a basketball.

Orioles1954 · #6 12-14-2020, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr2686

We should probably get rid of the Padres name to appease the atheists too.

Or Saints.

campyfan39 · #7 12-14-2020, 04:37 PM

Lol! and the Providence Friars!
This silly discussion shows just how ridiculous this whole thing is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr2686

we should probably get rid of the padres name to appease the atheists too.

JollyElm · #8 12-14-2020, 04:45 PM

If I call someone from France a Frenchman, it's fine. Oh, you hail from Sweden? You're a Swede. No problem. Down under? Hello, Aussie. But if I call someone from Mexico City a Mexican, the social justice d*bag warriors scream, "Racist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Sure it all makes perfect sense.

BillyCoxDodgers3B · #9 12-14-2020, 05:23 PM

Jeez, is this supposed to be Chief Wahoo or John Wayne Gacy?

Throttlesteer · #10 12-14-2020, 05:25 PM

I think this one has gone the full course. I'm guessing Leon will have this locked in the not-so-distant future.

cannonballsun · #11 12-14-2020, 05:37 PM

I think this was mainly a company (owner's of the Cleveland Indians), deciding to do something that they thought would be good for their business. There had been no outcry recently about the name, it wasn't anything anybody had been talking about recently. It was just something the owners decided to do. Perhaps they felt it would be good public relations.
Of course we love sports, and we also love card collecting, but we often make it out to be something more important than it really is. Teams used to change names very often. It didn't used to be a big thing.
As Bob Dylan famously said "the times they are a changing".
My favorite saying is that "the only thing that never changes is that everything changes".
So, was I surprised to hear the name changed ? Yes. Is it a big deal to me ? No. I'm not an Cleveland Indian fan. If I were, I guess I would feel different.

Tabe · #12 12-14-2020, 06:36 PM

The owners have decided to get rid of the offensive portion of their name. Their new name will now be:

Ohio Indians

*rimshot*

My local minor league team is the Spokane Indians. They have partnered with the actual Spokane tribe ("The Spokane Tribe of Indians" being the official name) and seek to honor the tribe with the team name, logos, and the stadium. The logo has "Spokane" written in Salish, for example. That's the right way to do things.

I think the problem with Cleveland is that they have a loooooooong history of, well, being racist with their team name, logos, and mascots. Yes, they dropped Chief Wahoo but the legacy of all the garbage is still there.

Personally, I think it's a wise decision of them to change. I don't consider this a sign of the apocalypse or even "bad" in any way. As baseball fans, we should all know that nearly every team has had a ton of nicknames through the years. What's one more?

A suggested name I heard from someone else: Cleveland Admirals, in honor of Cleveland native Admiral Isaac Kidd, who was killed at Pearl Harbor and awarded the Medal of Honor.

BillyCoxDodgers3B · #13 12-14-2020, 06:46 PM

How about the "Cuyahoga Fire"?

tedzan · #14 12-14-2020, 08:20 PM

Seriously, my advice to the owners is....re-name the team the Cleveland LAKERS....since the Stadium is situated next to Lake Erie.

Then, we can watch (and laugh) how the "politically correct" crowd struggles to change the name Lakers.....for they will try, as they
have no respect for anything traditional.
.

egri · #15 12-15-2020, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tabe

A suggested name I heard from someone else: Cleveland Admirals, in honor of Cleveland native Admiral Isaac Kidd, who was killed at Pearl Harbor and awarded the Medal of Honor.

Under his watch, USS Arizona's crew improperly stowed several thousand pounds of black powder outside of the magazine that detonated during the attack. Had Kidd lived, he likely would have been court-martialed.

keithsky · #16 12-15-2020, 07:32 AM

All the sports teams should be named after animals. At least they don't complain. Not yet anyway

Tabe · #17 12-15-2020, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by egri

Under his watch, USS Arizona's crew improperly stowed several thousand pounds of black powder outside of the magazine that detonated during the attack. Had Kidd lived, he likely would have been court-martialed.

Eh, don't let facts get in the way of a good story

Fred · #18 12-14-2020, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr2686

We should probably get rid of the Padres name to appease the atheists too.

Yeah, give it a few years, then someone will feel offended that the Swinging Friar is a humiliation of a Catholic priest. We live in an age of hyper sensitivity and political correctness gone awry.

I feel that celebrating "Pirates" is a terrible thing to do because Pirates were thieves and murderers. Why do we as a society allow that to happen?

What about the KC Chiefs? Is that the next sports franchise name that is being targeted? Redskins - gone, Indians-gone. Chiefs can't be far behind.

Sorry about that mini-rant -

nolemmings · #19 12-14-2020, 09:51 PM

As I mentioned in my last post, this has been going on for 50 years. Get over it and stop whining.

Jason19th · #20 12-14-2020, 10:06 PM

I get very tired of the argument that�s this type of action is �woke� white people deciding what offends someone. I feel that this argument fails for two main reasons

1. It puts the burden on the aggrieved minority group to fight ever battle. These groups have enough burden and cannot be expected to fight every slight and injustice. These groups should not be expected to explain every insult and educate about ever wrong.

2. It misses the point that we as the majority group should be offended by the action. We may not have taken the original action but that doesn�t mean we should turn a blind eye to the wrong and not act. We should be embarrassed about what has been done and fix it. Let�s all stop pretending that Indian names were historically meant to honor in a real way. Most of these names were created on the teens- the thirties. They were not meant to honor real people struggling to prosper. They were put in place to recognize the image of the Indian as the noble savage, the cowboys and Indians view, the dime novel image. This is caricature not reality, and you can never honor with caricature. This was not a country respecting its native inhabitants. This was a country that was sending young Indian children to school to �save the man, kill the Indian. � We tried to destroy their language and their culture. We did not take these actions but we need to stop misrepresenting what the actions really meant. I am not imposing offense on others, I am offended at what has been done in our name.

Mark17 · #21 12-14-2020, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason19th

I get very tired of the argument that�s this type of action is �woke� white people deciding what offends someone. I feel that this argument fails for two main reasons

1. It puts the burden on the aggrieved minority group to fight ever battle. These groups have enough burden and cannot be expected to fight every slight and injustice. These groups should not be expected to explain every insult and educate about ever wrong.

2. It misses the point that we as the majority group should be offended by the action. We may not have taken the original action but that doesn�t mean we should turn a blind eye to the wrong and not act. We should be embarrassed about what has been done and fix it. Let�s all stop pretending that Indian names were historically meant to honor in a real way. Most of these names were created on the teens- the thirties. They were not meant to honor real people struggling to prosper. They were put in place to recognize the image of the Indian as the noble savage, the cowboys and Indians view, the dime novel image. This is caricature not reality, and you can never honor with caricature. This was not a country respecting its native inhabitants. This was a country that was sending young Indian children to school to �save the man, kill the Indian. � We tried to destroy their language and their culture. We did not take these actions but we need to stop misrepresenting what the actions really meant. I am not imposing offense on others, I am offended at what has been done in our name.

How does this make the name "Indians" offensive?

You are way over-analyzing this, going back in history, finding grievances, and trying to say that now the very word "Indians" shouldn't be used. Do you want to cut it out of books too?

rats60 · #22 12-15-2020, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark17

How does this make the name "Indians" offensive?

You are way over-analyzing this, going back in history, finding grievances, and trying to say that now the very word "Indians" shouldn't be used. Do you want to cut it out of books too?

Haven't they done the same for African Americans who were offended by names Europeans called them to let them know they were lesser of people in their eyes? What about Chinese or Japanese or LBGTQ? Why can't we treat each other with respect as equals?

They are not Indians. An Indian is a person from India.

Leon · #23 12-15-2020, 10:06 AM

Personally I* think changing the name of the Indians is a crock of sh!@. There is no way that is offensive to anyone unless they are looking to be offended. Always the victim, should be the motto for 2020.

nolemmings · #24 12-15-2020, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

Personally I* think changing the name of the Indians is a crock of sh!@. There is no way that is offensive to anyone unless they are looking to be offended. Always the victim, should be the motto for 2020.

And yet 40+ years ago teams began changing their team name from Indians to something else because no way that was offensive to anyone? Just seemed like something to do?

packs · #25 12-15-2020, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

Personally I* think changing the name of the Indians is a crock of sh!@. There is no way that is offensive to anyone unless they are looking to be offended. Always the victim, should be the motto for 2020.

If you read the statement from the team it will tell you exactly why the change was made and what the opinions of the stakeholders were:

�Hearing firsthand the stories and experiences of Native American people, we gained a deep understanding of how tribal communities feel about the team name and the detrimental effects it has on them,� team owner Paul Dolan said in a statement. �While Indians will always be a part of our history, it is time to move forward and work to unify our stakeholders and fans through a new name.�

This was the response from the National Congress of American Indians:

�Today�s announcement represents a monumental step forward in Indian Country�s decades-long effort to educate America about what respect for tribal nations, cultures, and communities entails, and how sports mascots like the �Indians� prevent our fellow Americans from understanding and valuing who Native people are today, what makes us unique, and the many contributions we make to this country,�

Fballguy · #26 12-15-2020, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

They are not Indians. An Indian is a person from India.

This line sounds like it came from a brainwashed millennial. American Indians refer to themselves as Indians...ok? It's not even offensive to THEM.

Shoeless Moe · #27 12-15-2020, 11:31 AM

I think they should change the name of the state Indiana while they're at it.

I get offended every time I drive thru that state.

Mostly 'cuz of the odor.

rats60 · #28 12-15-2020, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fballguy

This line sounds like it came from a brainwashed millennial. American Indians refer to themselves as Indians...ok? It's not even offensive to THEM.

Paul Dolan found enough that were offended by the name that he is changing his team's name.

Mark17 · #29 12-15-2020, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

Haven't they done the same for African Americans who were offended by names Europeans called them to let them know they were lesser of people in their eyes? What about Chinese or Japanese or LBGTQ? Why can't we treat each other with respect as equals?

They are not Indians. An Indian is a person from India.

Is it okay with you if Indians refer to themselves as Indians? Because many of them do, including in organizational names.

Or would you, in your enlightenment, also tell Native Americans that they should not refer to themselves as Indians?

I wish more people would go about their lives with a "live and let live" attitude, rather than a superior, "everybody has to change as I decree" attitude.

nolemmings · #30 12-15-2020, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark17

Is it okay with you if Indians refer to themselves as Indians? Because many of them do, including in organizational names.

Or would you, in your enlightenment, also tell Native Americans that they should not refer to themselves as Indians?

I wish more people would go about their lives with a "live and let live" attitude, rather than a superior, "everybody has to change as I decree" attitude.

Agreed. So go about your life and let the Cleveland baseball team owner do the same.

packs · #31 12-15-2020, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark17

Is it okay with you if Indians refer to themselves as Indians? Because many of them do, including in organizational names.

Or would you, in your enlightenment, also tell Native Americans that they should not refer to themselves as Indians?

I wish more people would go about their lives with a "live and let live" attitude, rather than a superior, "everybody has to change as I decree" attitude.

I'm going to post the NCAI's response to the name change announcement one more time in case you didn't get a chance to read it above:

This was the response from the National Congress of American Indians:

�Today�s announcement represents a monumental step forward in Indian Country�s decades-long effort to educate America about what respect for tribal nations, cultures, and communities entails, and how sports mascots like the �Indians� prevent our fellow Americans from understanding and valuing who Native people are today, what makes us unique, and the many contributions we make to this country,�

That should quell any general notions about the Native American response or preference.

I'm going to post the NCAI's description for their organization again as well:

The National Congress of American Indians, founded in 1944, is the oldest, largest and most representative American Indian and Alaska Native organization serving the broad interests of tribal governments and communities.

t206fix · #32 12-15-2020, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark17

Is it okay with you if Indians refer to themselves as Indians? Because many of them do, including in organizational names.

Or would you, in your enlightenment, also tell Native Americans that they should not refer to themselves as Indians?

I wish more people would go about their lives with a "live and let live" attitude, rather than a superior, "everybody has to change as I decree" attitude.

Why is it the Indian name that gets you this riled up? Something as trivial as the name of a baseball club? Were you this upset when the Devil Rays changed their name? Hmm, something about that Indian name... See, if the Notre Dame Fightin' Irish changed their name tomorrow, most people wouldn't give a damn. They'd say sweet, the Fightin' Devil Rays... and life would go on.

Again, it's not the term "Indian" that's questionable to us. We've been referring to ourselves as Indians for years. It's the fact that we are not a mascot. It is not alright for you to dress up in Native gear, paint your faces yelling out war whoops to mock us. We are not fine with you putting offensive cartoon caricatures on your clothing and wearing it around demeaning our appearances. We've been fighting that battle for many years, so don't pin this on anyone else. This has been the Indian, Native American, American Indian agenda for many years ... have you been listening?. This is not what Native culture is, nor has it ever been that. Many Native cultures to this day are still fighting for basic survival. The simple fact that Native children are still seeing these depictions should make most people say, enough is enough. It's time for this shit to go.

When it comes down to it, it's really a questions of power. When minority groups rise up against the majority, the standard line is "I don't get why you are so offended, we've been doing it this way for years. Why are you playing the victim card? If we give you this, what are you going to ask for next." I'm calling bullshit. 2020 was a shitty year, but one thing it did do was get rid of those racist mascots.

Were you fine with the Redskins name? What other minority race would you be ok with this happening to? Please, fill in the blank for me... The Cleveland ___________

Fballguy · #33 12-15-2020, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason19th

I get very tired of the argument that�s this type of action is �woke� white people deciding what offends someone. I feel that this argument fails for two main reasons

1. It puts the burden on the aggrieved minority group to fight ever battle. These groups have enough burden and cannot be expected to fight every slight and injustice. These groups should not be expected to explain every insult and educate about ever wrong.

2. It misses the point that we as the majority group should be offended by the action. We may not have taken the original action but that doesn�t mean we should turn a blind eye to the wrong and not act. We should be embarrassed about what has been done and fix it. Let�s all stop pretending that Indian names were historically meant to honor in a real way. Most of these names were created on the teens- the thirties. They were not meant to honor real people struggling to prosper. They were put in place to recognize the image of the Indian as the noble savage, the cowboys and Indians view, the dime novel image. This is caricature not reality, and you can never honor with caricature. This was not a country respecting its native inhabitants. This was a country that was sending young Indian children to school to �save the man, kill the Indian. � We tried to destroy their language and their culture. We did not take these actions but we need to stop misrepresenting what the actions really meant. I am not imposing offense on others, I am offended at what has been done in our name.

I love #2. "I'm offended so you should be offended!".

gawaintheknight · #34 12-16-2020, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason19th

I get very tired of the argument that�s this type of action is �woke� white people deciding what offends someone. I feel that this argument fails for two main reasons

1. It puts the burden on the aggrieved minority group to fight ever battle. These groups have enough burden and cannot be expected to fight every slight and injustice. These groups should not be expected to explain every insult and educate about ever wrong.

2. It misses the point that we as the majority group should be offended by the action. We may not have taken the original action but that doesn�t mean we should turn a blind eye to the wrong and not act. We should be embarrassed about what has been done and fix it. Let�s all stop pretending that Indian names were historically meant to honor in a real way. Most of these names were created on the teens- the thirties. They were not meant to honor real people struggling to prosper. They were put in place to recognize the image of the Indian as the noble savage, the cowboys and Indians view, the dime novel image. This is caricature not reality, and you can never honor with caricature. This was not a country respecting its native inhabitants. This was a country that was sending young Indian children to school to �save the man, kill the Indian. � We tried to destroy their language and their culture. We did not take these actions but we need to stop misrepresenting what the actions really meant. I am not imposing offense on others, I am offended at what has been done in our name.

+1

bobcatfunds · #35 12-16-2020, 11:54 AM

I fear the Angels, Saints, and Padres will be next on the chopping block.

perezfan · #36 12-16-2020, 12:03 PM

Yep, any name with Christian roots will be forced to change. Just give it a couple more years.

nolemmings · #37 12-16-2020, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

Yep, any name with Christian roots will be forced to change. Just give it a couple more years.

Highly unlikely, but if so, it will not be the end of days, nor any Revelation.

Huysmans · #38 12-16-2020, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Highly unlikely, but if so, it will not be the end of days, nor any Revelation.

Extremely likely, and it wouldn't be the end of the world if no names were changed as well..... the sky won't fall EITHER way.

nolemmings · #39 12-16-2020, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huysmans

Extremely likely, and it wouldn't be the end of the world if no names were changed as well..... the sky won't fall EITHER way.

Really? I'm not sure several here would agree.

Tabe · #40 12-16-2020, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobcatfunds

I fear the Angels, Saints, and Padres will be next on the chopping block.

And if they are?

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