Negro Leagues Recognized As Major

[Fred]

From the LA Times: "Josh Gibson, a power-hitting catcher for Negro League teams, will likely be awarded baseball' single season record for batting average. Gibson hit .441 for multiple Negro League teams in 1943, surpassing the mark of .440 set in 1894".

Gibson had 342 plate appearances, 124 hits in 281 at bats in 1943. How can a comparison be made for a season with only 281 at bats to a season (Hugh Duffy's 1894 season) that ended up with a .440 average based on 616 plate appearances, 237 hits in 539 at bats?

How many times have we seen a player over .400 at the All-Star break only to have that average plunge after the break?

This is going to be really stupid.

[pgconboy]

Originally Posted by Fred

How many times have we seen a player over .400 at the All-Star break only to have that average plunge after the break?

This is going to be really stupid.

Somewhat related to this was when the NFL went from 12 game seasons to 14.

Records fell.

Then they went form 14 game seasons to 16 game seasons.

Records fell.

They are likely going to 17 game seasons in 2021 or 2022.

Records will fall.

[Exhibitman]

For single season records I don't think we can exclude a reasonable season like Gibson's--if we do, are we going to see 61* again??? Ugh.

Look on the bright side: if the NL stats range can be expanded to 1953 and Hank Aaron becomes the all-time HR king again, we get rid of Cheatin' Barry!

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by pgconboy

Somewhat related to this was when the NFL went from 12 game seasons to 14.

Records fell.

Then they went form 14 game seasons to 16 game seasons.

Records fell.

They are likely going to 17 game seasons in 2021 or 2022.

Records will fall.

It's one thing when records fall because a player breaks it. It's quite a bit different when records fall because history is re-written.

Ted died knowing he was the last .400 hitter. Little did he know, the politics of MLB would decree he only held that distinction for 2 short years.

[pgconboy]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Ted died knowing he was the last .400 hitter. Little did he know, the politics of MLB would decree he only held that distinction for 2 short years.

I suspect we didn't hurt his feelings.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by pgconboy

I suspect we didn't hurt his feelings.

Based on what Ted said about the NL and its players, I wouldn't be surprised if he was proud to be bested by Gibson.

[packs]

Speaking of Ted Williams and his NL counterparts, and because every thread needs a card, here's what Satchel Paige had to say about Francisco Coimbre:

Satchel Paige stated “Coimbre could not be pitched to. No one gave me more trouble than anyone I ever faced, including Josh Gibson and Ted Williams.”

[triwak]

The equivalence of Negro League talent with AAA talent was simply someone's opinion, way back on the first page of this thread. Quit quoting it, folks! Geez, I don't understand any of the push-back with this. I for one, think this is wonderful news, and WAY overdue! More awesome baseball players and statistics to pour over - AS WE COLLECT THEIR CARDS??? This is gonna be great fun!!

[brianp-beme]

Ted died knowing he was the last .400 hitter. Little did he know, the politics of MLB would decree he only held that distinction for 2 short years.

Originally Posted by pgconboy

I suspect we didn't hurt his feelings.

Let's defrost Ted's frozen head and ask him how he feels.

Brian

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Let's defrost Ted's frozen head and ask him how he feels.

Brian

That's cold.

[Case12]

Poor Roger Maris will always have the asterick by his name. Probably should be a lot more astericks in the stats books. This will just add some more - with a whole lot of less reliable data. ��

[timtass]

Seamheads will only use a box score from a league game. Those are difficult to come by since a lot of times those newspapers are long gone. Typically minority owned newspapers were the only ones covering the games with any regularity. The Negro leagues did use Howe Sports for statistics. But the debate has always been with them. Did they include games played against "town teams".

One of the most difficult things is going to be finding league games played on neutral sites. I am from Indiana and my state hosted a number of league games with neither team being local.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Fred

From the LA Times: "Josh Gibson, a power-hitting catcher for Negro League teams, will likely be awarded baseball' single season record for batting average. Gibson hit .441 for multiple Negro League teams in 1943, surpassing the mark of .440 set in 1894".

Gibson had 342 plate appearances, 124 hits in 281 at bats in 1943. How can a comparison be made for a season with only 281 at bats to a season (Hugh Duffy's 1894 season) that ended up with a .440 average based on 616 plate appearances, 237 hits in 539 at bats?

How many times have we seen a player over .400 at the All-Star break only to have that average plunge after the break?

This is going to be really stupid.

Hugh Duffy set his record in a year when the first 5 batters on the leaderboard hit over 400.

Since detractors have made such an issue over the level of play, it seems disingenuous to bring up Hugh Duffy.