Negro Leagues Recognized As Major

Mark17 · #1 12-17-2020, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Don Newcombe won 20 games in 1951, 20 games in 1955, and 27 games in 1956.

You're right. Looking again at the index of Grant's book, Sam Jones also did it in 1959. So that makes 13 in 57 years, 5 doing it more than once.

I think my point stands - the black hitters seem to have been well ahead of the pitchers.

oldeboo · #2 12-17-2020, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark17

I think my point stands - the black hitters seem to have been well ahead of the pitchers.

I could make a pretty decent argument that the best hitter of each decade from the 1960s onward, when integration really took hold, was a person that had a skin pigmentation other than white. (I'll give it to Trout over the last decade) Does this delegitimize all Major League statistics prior to integration? The Negro League hitters may have been ahead of the Negro League pitchers, but wouldn't it make sense that the Negro League hitters were likely ahead of Major League pitchers before integration as well?

There are many things that have impacted stats through the years that they all require an asterisks next to them when comparing. You can't compare steroid era, war years, dead-ball era, pre-integration, and Negro League to name a few. The stats deserve merit on their own.

jason.1969 · #3 12-18-2020, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark17

You're right. Looking again at the index of Grant's book, Sam Jones also did it in 1959. So that makes 13 in 57 years, 5 doing it more than once.

I think my point stands - the black hitters seem to have been well ahead of the pitchers.

Not a strong take. Research the unwritten rules governing black pitchers in the early days of MLB integration.

t206fix · #4 12-18-2020, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason.1969

Not a strong take. Research the unwritten rules governing black pitchers in the early days of MLB integration.

Jason, would love to hear more about this. Where do I look?

jason.1969 · #5 12-18-2020, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t206fix

Jason, would love to hear more about this. Where do I look?

One example relates to belief that Black men weren�t cerebral enough to pitch, catch, or manage. Here is Bob Kendrick on the topic�

��-

�Historically, pitchers and catchers did not transition from the Negro Leagues,�� Kendrick said. �There were great arms in the Negro Leagues, and we had great catchers from Josh Gibson to Roy Campanella, but that was considered a cerebral position. And the general consensus back then was that these men weren�t smart enough to play in the major leagues.

��

Same line of racist thinking limited Black Quarterbacks in football and managers/GMs in several sports.

Additionally, Black pitchers were hesitant to throw inside vs white batters out of fear their lives or careers would be at risk if they injured a white player.

t206fix · #6 12-18-2020, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason.1969

One example relates to belief that Black men weren�t cerebral enough to pitch, catch, or manage. Here is Bob Kendrick on the topic�

��-

�Historically, pitchers and catchers did not transition from the Negro Leagues,�� Kendrick said. �There were great arms in the Negro Leagues, and we had great catchers from Josh Gibson to Roy Campanella, but that was considered a cerebral position. And the general consensus back then was that these men weren�t smart enough to play in the major leagues.

��

Same line of racist thinking limited Black Quarterbacks in football and managers/GMs in several sports.

Additionally, Black pitchers were hesitant to throw inside vs white batters out of fear their lives or careers would be at risk if they injured a white player.

Thank you. I remember that bullshit from the 80s. "A black man can't quarterback."

PE : we about to watch the super bowl, we got a black quarter back, so step back.

Scocs · #7 12-18-2020, 07:05 PM

I was going to bring that point up about black pitchers and double standards. If a black quarterback wasn�t accepted until 1988, what makes you think a black man throwing a baseball 90 mph at a white man�s head would have been accepted in the late 1940s and throughout the 1950s?

Peter_Spaeth · #8 12-18-2020, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scocs

I was going to bring that point up about black pitchers and double standards. If a black quarterback wasn’t accepted until 1988, what makes you think a black man throwing a baseball 90 mph at a white man’s head would have been accepted in the late 1940s and throughout the 1950s?

Gibby, who of course came along a whole decade later, related some stories about how he was excluded from meetings discussing how to pitch to the opposing team's lineup by Solly Hemus and perhaps others, the assumption being he wasn't smart enough to contribute. Unreal.

howard38 · #9 12-19-2020, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t206fix

Thank you. I remember that bullshit from the 80s. "A black man can't quarterback."

PE : we about to watch the super bowl, we got a black quarter back, so step back.

Not just the 80's. After Russell Wilson's famous super bowl INT my former boss started off a statement with, "This is not racist, but...". Of course, I knew the next words out of his mouth would, in fact, be racist & he didn't disappoint finishing with "a black quarterback can't win a super bowl". Wilson himself had won it the previous season, but whatever.

71buc · #10 12-21-2020, 08:46 AM

Nice article by Tom Boswell

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...negro-leagues/

Mark17 · #11 12-21-2020, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howard38

Not just the 80's. After Russell Wilson's famous super bowl INT my former boss started off a statement with, "This is not racist, but...". Of course, I knew the next words out of his mouth would, in fact, be racist & he didn't disappoint finishing with "a black quarterback can't win a super bowl". Wilson himself had won it the previous season, but whatever.

Is that evidence of systemic racism, or is he just your common, garden variety idiot?

I hear people say ignorant things all the time, about all sorts of things. On the topic of Russ Wilson, he is undeniably very successful at his profession, he's paid quite well, he's wildly popular in Seattle, and he seems like a genuinely nice guy and very hard working. Personally, he's my favorite guy on that team.

That interception that lost the Super Bowl is 100% on the coach. Give the ball to The Beast, 3 times if you have to, and you win. But no, Sherman has to get cute and call a risky play.

Tabe · #12 12-21-2020, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howard38

Not just the 80's. After Russell Wilson's famous super bowl INT my former boss started off a statement with, "This is not racist, but...". Of course, I knew the next words out of his mouth would, in fact, be racist & he didn't disappoint finishing with "a black quarterback can't win a super bowl". Wilson himself had won it the previous season, but whatever.

I'll defend that call til the day I die. Besides the fact Lynch hadn't succeeded in any of those situations all year...Russ hesitated on the throw, threw it late, threw it inaccurately, and Ricardo Lockette ran his route half-speed and at the wrong angle. If EITHER guy executes properly, it's a touchdown.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
1937 Who's Who in the Major Leagues Book (Ends 10PM EST Sunday 4/10)	Thecafewha	Live Auctions - Only 2-3 open, per member, at once.	0	04-07-2016 12:06 PM
SOLD 1953 Viewmasters Baseball Stars Of the Major Leagues - HOFs!	t206blogcom	1950 to 1959 Baseball cards- B/S/T	0	08-28-2014 09:35 PM
Break up of 1975 Broder Major Leagues The 1950s on Ebay	cardinalcollector	Ebay, Auction and other Venues Announcement- B/S/T	0	10-27-2010 09:21 PM
Anyone know the Negro Leagues?	Archive	Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used	5	10-30-2007 08:43 AM
Zeenut Players in Major Leagues	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	6	05-31-2005 09:12 PM