Hey, pennant guys

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by rlevy

Kyle and I have puzzled over this one, especially why they picked these 4 things to use as landmarks for LA - Chinatown, Grauman's Chinese Theatre, Olvera St.(known as “the birthplace of Los Angeles,” it is a Mexican Marketplace that recreates a romantic “Old Los Angeles” with a block-long narrow, tree-shaded, brick-lined market with old structures, painted stalls, street vendors, cafes, restaurants and gift shops), and ,uh, tropical fruit?. Guess they couldn't come up with another landmark in 1963. Unless you lived here, you probably wouldn't recognize any of these, except maybe the fruit.

But also, it doesn't help that they pasted the team photo over much of the artwork instead of inserting it in a cut-out window like most other photo pennants. The photo is simply too large for the cut-out. There is an outline for a photo insert on the pennant, but they never cut it out.

Here's a better picture of the "artwork".

Attachment 433223

Do you actually own this pennant, Rick? It's so ugly it's beautiful!

Super rare?

[rlevy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Do you actually own this pennant, Rick? It's so ugly it's beautiful!

Super rare?

Yes Rob, I own that pennant. I wouldn't say it is super rare (there are 2 on ebay right now), but they always have condition issues, especially heavy fading and tip issues. Its made out of a heavy "cloth" fabric, and the tip is usually either missing or fraying. Mine is about as nice as I have seen regarding color, but the tip has some fraying.

And I agree, it is ugly and beautiful at the same time. Just wish the team photo didn't cover up the tourist destinations.

1963 (3).jpg

[baseball tourist]

OHA’s Ottawa 67’s were born the same year as me. Plain-Jane style, but I haven’t seen it before and looks to be a good candidate for a clean up. 22 inches.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by baseball tourist

OHA’s Ottawa 67’s were born the same year as me. Plain-Jane style, but I haven’t seen it before and looks to be a good candidate for a clean up. 22 inches.

Hey Chris, if this is cloth ... likely yes. Retro Clean usually does the trick although you will want to test it with a q-tip to see if ink runs. 1960s cloth pennants can usually be turned pure white with maybe a bit of a touch up with a much-watered down bleach solution if the spine runs. Always good to soak with a dowel running through it. If it’s cottony felt and older, it might be tougher. Cool pennant!

[thetahat]

Interesting addition, with three top tassels. It joins my phantom version (in red). Interesting the pennants are exactly the same except that the word “Champions” is slightly different. So it’s not just the missing “World”. ... I’ve seen two versions like this in 1958 Braves and my 1950 Phillies just says “Champions”.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Interesting addition, with three top tassels. It joins my phantom version (in red). Interesting the pennants are exactly the same except that the word “Champions” is slightly different.

Damn, Eagle Eye! The pandemic hasn’t affected your vision!

[erikc21]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Interesting addition, with three top tassels. It joins my phantom version (in red). Interesting the pennants are exactly the same except that the word “Champions” is slightly different. So it’s not just the missing “World”. ... I’ve seen two versions like this in 1958 Braves and my 1950 Phillies just says “Champions”.

These pennants are awesome, Greg. And the ‘champions’ difference is so subtle, it’s amazing anybody would notice it. Any theories out there on the minor difference?

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by erikc21

These pennants are awesome, Greg. And the ‘champions’ difference is so subtle, it’s amazing anybody would notice it. Any theories out there on the minor difference?

Thanks Erik. No idea. I would have figured, maybe they made a screen with just champions, and then revised it later. But they used two different screens, even though the word is positioned for an easy revision.

[baseball tourist]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Hey Chris, if this is cloth ... likely yes. Retro Clean usually does the trick although you will want to test it with a q-tip to see if ink runs. 1960s cloth pennants can usually be turned pure white with maybe a bit of a touch up with a much-watered down bleach solution if the spine runs. Always good to soak with a dowel running through it. If it’s cottony felt and older, it might be tougher. Cool pennant!

Thanks Greg!

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by rlevy

Yes Rob, I own that pennant. I wouldn't say it is super rare (there are 2 on ebay right now), but they always have condition issues, especially heavy fading and tip issues. Its made out of a heavy "cloth" fabric, and the tip is usually either missing or fraying. Mine is about as nice as I have seen regarding color, but the tip has some fraying.

And I agree, it is ugly and beautiful at the same time. Just wish the team photo didn't cover up the tourist destinations.

Attachment 433645

If it was mine, I would probably ruin its value by trimming the photo’s L and R borders and moving the photo as far right as possible. I’m dumb, that way.

[rlevy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

If it was mine, I would probably ruin its value by trimming the photo’s L and R borders and moving the photo as far right as possible. I’m dumb, that way.

Rob, I think we are in trouble when Giant and Dodger fans have the same thought. Must be a new year. The painted-on window for a photo measures 5 x 7, and there are several team color postcards that could fit there perfectly. The photo that is pasted on has actually lifted off on the left edge already, and I think the rest would come off fairly easily without much if any paint loss. Any damage to the rest of the pennant from removing the b/w photo would be covered by attaching the new photo. I was thinking I could try a hair dryer to get the photo's glue to release from the pennant.

Probably would devalue the pennant but would look soooo much better. I resist because 1) I like to leave these pennants as they were manufactured, 2) I would hate to mess the pennant up , and my track record messing with these isn't very good, and 3) I can hear Kyle's eyes rolling at the very thought.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by rlevy

I can hear Kyle's eyes rolling at the very thought.

Wow! Greg has the eyes of an eagle and you have the ears of my dogs when I open a bag of chips!

You could always modify it for display but still hang on to the original pic....

Wait! Do I hear eyes rolling?

[bocca001]

I wouldn't mess up that more or less pristine copy of the Dodgers pennant. But I might mess around with a beater if I could get one for the right price.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by rlevy

Rob, I think we are in trouble when Giant and Dodger fans have the same thought. Must be a new year. The painted-on window for a photo measures 5 x 7, and there are several team color postcards that could fit there perfectly. The photo that is pasted on has actually lifted off on the left edge already, and I think the rest would come off fairly easily without much if any paint loss. Any damage to the rest of the pennant from removing the b/w photo would be covered by attaching the new photo. I was thinking I could try a hair dryer to get the photo's glue to release from the pennant.

Probably would devalue the pennant but would look soooo much better. I resist because 1) I like to leave these pennants as they were manufactured, 2) I would hate to mess the pennant up , and my track record messing with these isn't very good, and 3) I can hear Kyle's eyes rolling at the very thought.

Are my eyes that loud??

This poses an interesting ethical question for the thread: If a pennant maker screwed up something during the manufacturing process, and you can fix it; and, actually succeed in enhancing the look of the pennant ... should you??

For example ... re-sewing faulty stitching caused by a lazy seamstress; removing paint splatter or color bleed caused by a hasty screen printer; re-securing a loose tassel or photo; or sharpening a blunt tip that was never sharp to begin with.

Discuss.

[rlevy]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Are my eyes that loud??

Having raised 2 daughters, I can guarantee that you can certainly hear eyes rolling.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Are my eyes that loud??

This poses an interesting ethical question for the thread: If a pennant maker screwed up something during the manufacturing process, and you can fix it; and, actually succeed in enhancing the look of the pennant ... should you??

For example ... re-sewing faulty stitching caused by a lazy seamstress; removing paint splatter or color bleed caused by a hasty screen printer; re-securing a loose tassel or photo; or sharpening a blunt tip that was never sharp to begin with.

Discuss.

I think it depends, only with respect to disclosure if you have to resell. Cleaning dirt of a pennant? That’s fine IMO. Carefully removing paint splatter? That, too. But trimming to make a pointy tip ... yeah that’s a no-no. Now I will say that the dreaded Ad Flags are notorious for wavy cuts, and while I generally avoid Ad Flags I do have a Colt 45s that looked like it was originally cut by an 8 year old with his art class scissors. And if anything the imperfections made it bigger. A straight edge and an exacto knife fixed it right up.

Loose tassels? No. Loose pictures? Yes. Elmers clear glue stick.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by thetahat

I think it depends, only with respect to disclosure if you have to resell. Cleaning dirt of a pennant? That’s fine IMO. Carefully removing paint splatter? That, too. But trimming to make a pointy tip ... yeah that’s a no-no. Now I will say that the dreaded Ad Flags are notorious for wavy cuts, and while I generally avoid Ad Flags I do have a Colt 45s that looked like it was originally cut by an 8 year old with his art class scissors. And if anything the imperfections made it bigger. A straight edge and an exacto knife fixed it right up.

Loose tassels? No. Loose pictures? Yes. Elmers clear glue stick.

Blunt, torn or missing tip is my #1 pennant pet peeve. I just can't look past it unless we're talking about a pennant I may never see again. It's the first thing I look at when deciding to buy and I've bought plenty over the years that looked fine in the pics but once in hand, I could tell it had been sharpened. Never once was it disclosed and in fairness, many sellers wouldn't even know what to look for. It's also very hard to account for what every owner of a 70+ year old pennant did with it. There is no universally accepted pennant grading system. Most people judge a pennant on rarity and eye appeal. Though I will say, I've bought pennants from sellers who I know know better and yet it still wasn't disclosed.

Cleaning or removing stains is fine in my book. When you sell a car, do you disclose every scratch you buffed out?

As far as tassels and pictures...I don't see how you can differentiate one from the other. Why would it be ok to re-glue a loose picture, but not be ok to use a drop of fabric glue to secure a loose tassel?

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by rlevy

Yes Rob, I own that pennant. I wouldn't say it is super rare (there are 2 on ebay right now), but they always have condition issues, especially heavy fading and tip issues. Its made out of a heavy "cloth" fabric, and the tip is usually either missing or fraying. Mine is about as nice as I have seen regarding color, but the tip has some fraying.

And I agree, it is ugly and beautiful at the same time. Just wish the team photo didn't cover up the tourist destinations.

Attachment 433645

Great looking pennant actually, love the blue cloth when it keeps its color. I wonder what company made these, the ‘63 Mets is similar with a stapled picture instead of glued from behind.

[thetahat]

Question: Does anyone know of any Dodgers scroll pennants of this design besides 1949, 1952, 1955? I know there’s a ‘50 that looks like the Cinderella Boys Giants pennant, but I’m thinking Trench ..

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Great looking pennant actually, love the blue cloth when it keeps its color. I wonder what company made these, the ‘63 Mets is similar with a stapled picture instead of glued from behind.

I'm 90% sure it's by Trench. They made other Dodger pennants, including photo pennants, in the early 1960s featuring their mark and the identical "LOS ANGELES" script.

I believe Trench also made travel pennants featuring the same "Scenes of Los Angeles" artwork during that era; and travel pennants in general for a host of different cities.

I suspect Trench planned to cut the window out and glue the photo from the reverse side; however, they just ran out of time. Stapling it to the front side must've been easier; however, as noted earlier, this modification left the photo obscuring much of the artwork.

[rlevy]

Originally Posted by rlevy

Yes Rob, I own that pennant. I wouldn't say it is super rare (there are 2 on ebay right now), but they always have condition issues, especially heavy fading and tip issues. Its made out of a heavy "cloth" fabric, and the tip is usually either missing or fraying. Mine is about as nice as I have seen regarding color, but the tip has some fraying.

And I agree, it is ugly and beautiful at the same time. Just wish the team photo didn't cover up the tourist destinations.

Attachment 433645

As previously mentioned, I thought the rendering on the left above Chinatown was the Grauman's Chinese Theatre, based upon only being able to see a sliver of the artwork not covered up by the oversized photo. But this thread made me rethink this, and because I was able to lift up the left side of the photo, I was able to determine that the building is actually City Hall, which back in 1963, was one of the few "skyscrapers" in LA.

1963 (3) close-up.jpg
1963 photo city hall comp.jpg