Hey, pennant guys

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Just think how much work went into making that pennant style. So much sewing!

I got this a month or so ago for like $65. Not sure if it’s worthless given the team or if the age alone makes it a good get. I got it because it looks neat. Niagara University is in Buffalo, my school actually plays them non-conference every now and then. It seems the school played only 10 games a year back in the teens. (Joe McCarthy played here 1905-07.) But this pennant is almost perfect, around 33.5”, and everything is sewn, every line, every wrinkle in the guy’s uniform. There’s no shot this was mass produced, is there? It seems like similar construction to the Madison pennant.

[thetahat]

Silk screening seems to date commercially back to 1911 based on some crude internet searches. So I wonder if these go back to the aughts. That would include the baseball pennants with the leather graphics. Screening would figure to be so much easier to mass produce, so that once it became a thing, why would anyone sew? The leather graphics offered an alternative to sewing in that details could be burned on with a heated tool.

[Domer05]

The first pennants to be screen printed first hit the market around 1910-11. It was obviously seen among pennant makers as a superior way to make a pennant because you could do so much more in terms of artwork using this method, which permitted very detailed graphics. More importantly: it required significantly less sewing and therefore required less time and money to produce such items.

But, these advantages notwithstanding, sewed letter pennants never entirely vanished. In fact, Collegiate-Pacific continued making them through the 1970s; and Winning Streak still makes them today (kind of).

Some manufacturers had no choice but to continue making sewed letter pennants. That's because the first companies to successfully adapt screen printing for making novelty pennants guarded the process behind it with utmost secrecy. They didn't just do this to maintain a leg up on their competition; they needed time to apply for and secure patents, because they correctly foresaw the value in the process itself and its adaptability for other other applications, namely, advertising posters; and eventually, apparel.

I've identified about 4-5 pennant makers from the early 1910s that were among the first to make screen printed pennants. The one most of you may be familiar with is The Reproduction Co. of New York City. They made some of the most recognizable collegiate pennants from that era using this new production method.

I have seen numerous pennant catalogues and advertisements from makers well into the 1920s offering both "sewed letter" and new "art process" (screen printed) pennants for sale. So, unfortunately, just because a pennant is sewn letter doesn't automatically mean it was made pre-1910. I wish it were that simple....

[perezfan]

Great insights, Kyle!

Greg, that Niagara Pennant is sweet. Very attractive and unquestionably of the era (teens). A nice pickup for $65. LMK if you ever want to sell/trade, and make a bit of profit.

[perezfan]

Speaking of profit, it looks like Jonsstats makes out once again. Was this possibly a legit sale?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/orig-RARE-S...p2047675.l2557

The last time I had that Cardinals pennant, I think I got about $75 for it. And look at the ridiculous distance between bidders #2 and 3.

https://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/20...p2047675.l2565

I bet the winning bidder would like to behead bidder #2 right about now (for costing him a cool $929

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Speaking of profit, it looks like Jonsstats makes out once again. Was this possibly a legit sale?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/orig-RARE-S...p2047675.l2557

The last time I had that Cardinals pennant, I think I got about $75 for it. And look at the ridiculous distance between bidders #2 and 3.

https://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/20...p2047675.l2565

I bet the winning bidder would like to behead bidder #2 right about now (for costing him a cool $929

Insane! Neat and rare pennant but come on, now!

[jb217676]

Cool links! Here's the link to my Dodgers Pennant that I won this past November:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-19...rdt=true&rt=nc

$157.50 USD plus $18.78 shipping! It's in fantastic condition... no stains or tears and the printing is real nice.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Speaking of profit, it looks like Jonsstats makes out once again. Was this possibly a legit sale?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/orig-RARE-S...p2047675.l2557

The last time I had that Cardinals pennant, I think I got about $75 for it. And look at the ridiculous distance between bidders #2 and 3.

https://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/20...p2047675.l2565

I bet the winning bidder would like to behead bidder #2 right about now (for costing him a cool $929

My first thoughts as well...No way that sale goes through. Who would even want that one that badly to risk such a high ceiling bid? It's a rarer version of a pretty common style...So maybe $150? It looks like it's already missing from his sold results so I suspect the sale is already falling apart.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I bet the winning bidder would like to behead bidder #2 right about now (for costing him a cool $929

In theory, he should be thrilled--he won it! But then's there's the theory of relativity in bidding...

[bocca001]

This reminds me of the Dodgers pennant we were talking about recently, with a team photo and city-related graphics. Looks like the planned/executed this one a bit better.

[bocca001]

Thanks to Mike M for making this available to me. The 16th Orange Bowl was Santa Clara vs. Kentucky. The material (shiny, silk like) is similar to two of my Orange Bowl pennants, which makes me wonder if the pennants were made to advertise the game (as opposed to sold at the game).

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Great insights, Kyle!

Greg, that Niagara Pennant is sweet. Very attractive and unquestionably of the era (teens). A nice pickup for $65. LMK if you ever want to sell/trade, and make a bit of profit.

Thanks Mark, I might take you up on that in time, I don’t have room to hang it.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Domer05

The first pennants to be screen printed first hit the market around 1910-11. It was obviously seen among pennant makers as a superior way to make a pennant because you could do so much more in terms of artwork using this method, which permitted very detailed graphics. More importantly: it required significantly less sewing and therefore required less time and money to produce such items.

But, these advantages notwithstanding, sewed letter pennants never entirely vanished. In fact, Collegiate-Pacific continued making them through the 1970s; and Winning Streak still makes them today (kind of).

Some manufacturers had no choice but to continue making sewed letter pennants. That's because the first companies to successfully adapt screen printing for making novelty pennants guarded the process behind it with utmost secrecy. They didn't just do this to maintain a leg up on their competition; they needed time to apply for and secure patents, because they correctly foresaw the value in the process itself and its adaptability for other other applications, namely, advertising posters; and eventually, apparel.

I've identified about 4-5 pennant makers from the early 1910s that were among the first to make screen printed pennants. The one most of you may be familiar with is The Reproduction Co. of New York City. They made some of the most recognizable collegiate pennants from that era using this new production method.

I have seen numerous pennant catalogues and advertisements from makers well into the 1920s offering both "sewed letter" and new "art process" (screen printed) pennants for sale. So, unfortunately, just because a pennant is sewn letter doesn't automatically mean it was made pre-1910. I wish it were that simple....

This is great and it makes sense. Perhaps it is more indicative of pennants with elaborate sewn graphics like the ones pictured here ... someone could have saved a lot of time and money with a screen, if they had access.

I guess the first “series” to use screen print are the “B.B.C.” pennants which definitely date to 1910-14, due to the Phillies “daisy” pennants. One was in Hunt Auctions a few days ago, just beautiful .. but $9K including BP. Yikes!

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by thetahat

I got this a month or so ago for like $65. Not sure if it’s worthless given the team or if the age alone makes it a good get. I got it because it looks neat. Niagara University is in Buffalo, my school actually plays them non-conference every now and then. It seems the school played only 10 games a year back in the teens. (Joe McCarthy played here 1905-07.) But this pennant is almost perfect, around 33.5”, and everything is sewn, every line, every wrinkle in the guy’s uniform. There’s no shot this was mass produced, is there? It seems like similar construction to the Madison pennant.

That's a beauty!