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  #4501  
Old 01-15-2021, 06:57 AM
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Been having a great email convo with Kyle regarding the WGN series of pennants that we date to 1950-52. Thought I’d share an observation. I’m suspecting that the same company was the “major” producer all during the 1940s. Speaking specifically about the pennants with: wide spine, soft thin tassels not close to edge, single stitch. There exist pennants in the series we know that have this construction.. See NYG and Cubs pennants below. (Cubs has tassels tucked behind.)

Now observe the script of ‘Wrigley Field’. Looks exactly like that on my 1944 Browns pennant. So I’m thinking this is the company behind all of these - the pennant wheel pic I found online. ... Kyle noticed that the Yankees pennant matches letter font to the 1950, 1951 ASG pennants. Anyway, I found this to be interesting!

Last edited by thetahat; 01-15-2021 at 07:24 AM.
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  #4502  
Old 01-15-2021, 08:36 AM
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I look forward to Greg’s Google photo albums, grouped by series.
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  #4503  
Old 01-15-2021, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by thetahat View Post
Been having a great email convo with Kyle regarding the WGN series of pennants that we date to 1950-52. Thought I’d share an observation. I’m suspecting that the same company was the “major” producer all during the 1940s. Speaking specifically about the pennants with: wide spine, soft thin tassels not close to edge, single stitch. There exist pennants in the series we know that have this construction.. See NYG and Cubs pennants below. (Cubs has tassels tucked behind.)

Now observe the script of ‘Wrigley Field’. Looks exactly like that on my 1944 Browns pennant. So I’m thinking this is the company behind all of these - the pennant wheel pic I found online. ... Kyle noticed that the Yankees pennant matches letter font to the 1950, 1951 ASG pennants. Anyway, I found this to be interesting!
Not all the Cub pennants from this series had tassels. Why would certain ones be made differently?
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  #4504  
Old 01-15-2021, 12:04 PM
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Not all the Cub pennants from this series had tassels. Why would certain ones be made differently?
Because some worker at the factory (making 25 cents an hour) knew that 70 years later, in the year 2021, a few baseball nerds would be analyzing the crap out of these felt triangles... and he/she just want to f*ck with us.

Seriously I don't think there's much rhyme or reason to these anomalies. I can't imagine an executive at WGN barking out to his seamstress, "Sheila, put tassels on those green ones, but be sure the red ones remain tassel-free.

Perhaps it's something as simple as the seamstress was running late, and wanted to put dinner on the table that night. So she cut corners at work, and said to hell with the tassels. Or perhaps it was a temporary cost-cutting thing. Or maybe there was a lazy employee who had to be let go. Or maybe the company just ran out of stock on tassels for a period.

Maybe WW2 caused there to be a tassel shortage. Only one thing's for sure... we will never know why some had tassels and some don't.
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  #4505  
Old 01-15-2021, 12:17 PM
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Because some worker at the factory (making 25 cents an hour) knew that 70 years later, in the year 2021, a few baseball nerds would be analyzing the crap out of these felt triangles... and he/she just want to f*ck with us.

Seriously I don't think there's much rhyme or reason to these anomalies. I can't imagine an executive at WGN barking out to his seamstress, "Sheila, put tassels on those green ones, but be sure the red ones remain tassel-free.

Perhaps it's something as simple as the seamstress was running late, and wanted to put dinner on the table that night. So she cut corners at work, and said to hell with the tassels. Or perhaps it was a temporary cost-cutting thing. Or maybe there was a lazy employee who had to be let go. Or maybe the company just ran out of stock on tassels for a period.

Maybe WW2 caused there to be a tassel shortage. Only one thing's for sure... we will never know why some had tassels and some don't.
I soooo want to believe that they did this just to f**k with us years later. Because it’s working. 😂
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  #4506  
Old 01-15-2021, 02:48 PM
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Not all the Cub pennants from this series had tassels. Why would certain ones be made differently?
Most of them don't have tassels. But I think the few that do provide the link to others with same construction but different artwork.

Here's my album for this series, hopefully this works. Only team missing is the Cardinals, and if that recent crazy eBay auction for a dull Cards pennant is any indication, I’ll be going to my grave without a complete set

https://photos.app.goo.gl/znecMcWWbjS1uJpJ7

Last edited by thetahat; 01-15-2021 at 02:57 PM.
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  #4507  
Old 01-15-2021, 05:27 PM
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Most of them don't have tassels. But I think the few that do provide the link to others with same construction but different artwork.

Here's my album for this series, hopefully this works. Only team missing is the Cardinals, and if that recent crazy eBay auction for a dull Cards pennant is any indication, I’ll be going to my grave without a complete set

https://photos.app.goo.gl/znecMcWWbjS1uJpJ7
Here’s one with tassels but without Wrigley Field at the bottom.
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  #4508  
Old 01-15-2021, 06:11 PM
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Because some worker at the factory (making 25 cents an hour) knew that 70 years later, in the year 2021, a few baseball nerds would be analyzing the crap out of these felt triangles... and he/she just want to f*ck with us.

Seriously I don't think there's much rhyme or reason to these anomalies. I can't imagine an executive at WGN barking out to his seamstress, "Sheila, put tassels on those green ones, but be sure the red ones remain tassel-free.

Perhaps it's something as simple as the seamstress was running late, and wanted to put dinner on the table that night. So she cut corners at work, and said to hell with the tassels. Or perhaps it was a temporary cost-cutting thing. Or maybe there was a lazy employee who had to be let go. Or maybe the company just ran out of stock on tassels for a period.

Maybe WW2 caused there to be a tassel shortage. Only one thing's for sure... we will never know why some had tassels and some don't.
Good stuff Mark! Lol
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  #4509  
Old 01-15-2021, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by thetahat View Post
Most of them don't have tassels. But I think the few that do provide the link to others with same construction but different artwork.

Here's my album for this series, hopefully this works. Only team missing is the Cardinals, and if that recent crazy eBay auction for a dull Cards pennant is any indication, I’ll be going to my grave without a complete set

https://photos.app.goo.gl/znecMcWWbjS1uJpJ7
Keep it up, Greg. I’m a visual learner.
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  #4510  
Old 01-15-2021, 06:54 PM
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Good stuff Mark! Lol
LOL! Probably right But on the other hand, at a time when you could only get at most 2 or 3 different flavors of ice cream at the corner market, you could venture down to Ebbets Field and get one of at least SIX different colors of Emmet Kelly. (I think there’s orange?) ...

These might have been a bigger deal than we think ... if only because the variety of souvenirs in general was limited to just a few items. And screen printing one color at a time is an ordeal. .... But yeah, I don’t think there were big board meetings to discuss “tassels or no tassels”.
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  #4511  
Old 01-15-2021, 08:26 PM
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Not all the Cub pennants from this series had tassels. Why would certain ones be made differently?
Although WGN was known for, shall we say, "inconsistencies" in their manufacturing process, I think there's a better answer: By about 1950 or so, WGN transitioned to a different pennant style. That's about when they introduced limited color graphics; and they stopped using tassels. As best we can tell, this series spanned a few years around the year 1950 (plus or minus 2 years?). That's right around the time that they stopped using tassels.

This to me best explains why the older, black/orange cubs version has tassels; and the newer red/white one doesn't.

That, and ... they totally wanted to F with us.
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Last edited by Domer05; 01-15-2021 at 10:03 PM.
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  #4512  
Old 01-15-2021, 11:10 PM
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Here’s 3 more of theirs for sure...
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  #4513  
Old 01-16-2021, 08:02 AM
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Mark that’s cool ... and now we know the same company made three different pennants for a single game. (1951 ASG) To be that indicates that pennants were a pretty big deal back then!
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  #4514  
Old 01-16-2021, 08:03 AM
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It appears they also made a second 1947 ASG pennant, the one with names in ribbons ... I think you have that, too?
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  #4515  
Old 01-16-2021, 08:19 AM
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Mark that’s cool ... and now we know the same company made three different pennants for a single game. (1951 ASG) To be that indicates that pennants were a pretty big deal back then!
They’re still a big deal!
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  #4516  
Old 01-16-2021, 10:16 AM
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Been having a great email convo with Kyle regarding the WGN series of pennants that we date to 1950-52. Thought I’d share an observation. I’m suspecting that the same company was the “major” producer all during the 1940s. Speaking specifically about the pennants with: wide spine, soft thin tassels not close to edge, single stitch. There exist pennants in the series we know that have this construction.. See NYG and Cubs pennants below. (Cubs has tassels tucked behind.)
So, what do we make of this SF pennant? Obviously, 1958 or later. It has the "satiny" spine. Just some unknown maker, stealing artwork? BTW - this is a pretty tough pennant to find and one of my favorite,s due to the "one off" font.
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  #4517  
Old 01-16-2021, 10:24 AM
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It appears they also made a second 1947 ASG pennant, the one with names in ribbons ... I think you have that, too?
I have that one posted on my site; but, I believe it to be by ADFLAG not WGN.

(The lettering is a tad bit smoother and matches that of later ADFLAG pennants.)

It gets confusing because both WGN and ADFLAG made similar looking pennants during the same time frame, in the same city, for the same teams/events; and, both copied each other's artwork at different times.
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  #4518  
Old 01-16-2021, 10:46 AM
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Multi-sport star (photo courtesy of Football Rob website)
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  #4519  
Old 01-16-2021, 10:57 AM
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It appears they also made a second 1947 ASG pennant, the one with names in ribbons ... I think you have that, too?
I think this is one you mean.
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  #4520  
Old 01-16-2021, 11:11 AM
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So, what do we make of this SF pennant? Obviously, 1958 or later. It has the "satiny" spine. Just some unknown maker, stealing artwork? BTW - this is a pretty tough pennant to find and one of my favorite,s due to the "one off" font.
This is a beautiful pennant, Rob! It’s hard to figure. I lean away from WGN because of the spine, not just the material but the crooked stitch (which doesn’t detract from its coolness) is unlike them. In that sense it resembles Ad Flag. Another indication is the type of stitch ... and here I have to plead ignorance, I don’t know the names. But there are three distinct types

1. Trench (almost all, but not all) and WGN used a simple stitch, with long length, that would come loose easily.

2. Ad Flag, Keezer, and ASCO used what looks like a reinforced stitch, noticeable on the back. Looks like a tight straight line. These were much more sturdy.

3. Zig zag stitch which I’ve only seen on one very rare series, unknown maker.

The early pennants seemed to use a simple stitch like Trench but very short length which made the spine tighter. Rarely see pre-teen pennants with loose spine and tassels that fell out.

As for Trench ... there’s a guy on eBay selling 3/4 size pennants (Red Sox, KCA, White Sox, LAA) from a find ... he even showed a pic of the box which was from Trench. Cloth pennants with cloth spine, and a stitch like ASCO. But they also look a little sloppy ... in the sense that my first thought was that they were knockoffs. But the box said otherwise.

.... As you know I’ve been fascinated with this set for quite awhile and I’ve never seen Orioles or KC A’s. There is this Milwaukee pennant, however (not mine)
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Last edited by thetahat; 01-16-2021 at 11:28 AM.
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  #4521  
Old 01-16-2021, 11:14 AM
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Haven't bought too much in the last couple of months, but lucked into this one. Had never seen it before.
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  #4522  
Old 01-16-2021, 11:30 AM
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I think this is one you mean.
Yep there it is. Great pennant!
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  #4523  
Old 01-16-2021, 11:50 AM
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Left is ASCO stitching on a 1969 Cubs pic pennant. Right is Trench.
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  #4524  
Old 01-16-2021, 12:26 PM
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Multi-sport star (photo courtesy of Football Rob website)
That’s great. A Bo Jackson kind of dude.
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  #4525  
Old 01-16-2021, 01:09 PM
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Haven't bought too much in the last couple of months, but lucked into this one. Had never seen it before.
I like pennants with exact dates ... never seen this one before either.

Last edited by thetahat; 01-16-2021 at 01:10 PM.
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  #4526  
Old 01-16-2021, 04:41 PM
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Oops, someone bought a repro ...
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  #4527  
Old 01-17-2021, 08:53 AM
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Default crosley field pennant question

Picked this beauty up recently but I'm wondering who the manufacturer may be? Looks like N.Y.P.CO. Which maybe stands for New York Pennant Company? I perused domer's excellent pennant info but i'm still left wondering...
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  #4528  
Old 01-17-2021, 10:29 AM
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Here’s 3 more of theirs for sure...
Mark -
Nice looking Rare 1947 All Star Pennant
Jerry
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Old 01-17-2021, 10:30 AM
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Picked this beauty up recently but I'm wondering who the manufacturer may be? Looks like N.Y.P.CO. Which maybe stands for New York Pennant Company? I perused domer's excellent pennant info but i'm still left wondering...
That is a beauty! Any chance that P could be an R? if so, maybe the NY Reproduction Co.
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Old 01-17-2021, 11:22 AM
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Here’s 3 more of theirs for sure...
Mark -
"After further review" The 1949 looks to be very rare and the best.
Jerry
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Old 01-17-2021, 12:08 PM
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Mark -
"After further review" The 1949 looks to be very rare and the best.
Jerry
Yes it is!

That one came from Jerry's treasure trove, and he graciously let it go. Might be my rarest All Star. I've sold a few really good ones lately, but am definitely holding on to that one.
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Old 01-17-2021, 12:11 PM
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That is a beauty! Any chance that P could be an R? if so, maybe the NY Reproduction Co.
Nope. It's a P with a period. I have the same pennant, and it's clearly a P.

I would agree with Chris, that it likely stands for New York Pennant Co.

Last edited by perezfan; 01-17-2021 at 12:43 PM.
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  #4533  
Old 01-17-2021, 12:29 PM
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Nope. It's a P with a period. I have the same pennant, and it's clearly a P. I would agree with Chris, that it likely stands for New York Pennant Co.
More of their work...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-195...-/293190648615


Some nice info in the text/description here. It says N.Y.P.Co. made pennants from the early 1920s through the 1950s...

https://www.etsy.com/listing/5481753...isting_details


They were apparently big into City Souvenir Pennants...

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/357614026639070787/


Another Cincinnati variation...

https://www.ebth.com/items/1676247-c...uvenir-pennant


And finally, this link has some info. If you scroll towards the bottom, the second offering under "past items" states that NYP Co. made pennants as early as 1927...

https://thea.com/Vintage-Vintage-Pennants/


In summary, I would definitely say that this company primarily made travel pennants. Their artwork was stellar and second-to-none. It has a very detailed, distinctive and ornate appearance. Very cool to find a sports-themed Reds pennant from this maker of travel pennants!

Last edited by perezfan; 01-17-2021 at 12:42 PM.
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Old 01-17-2021, 01:26 PM
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I have same pennant, in maroon. Seems to me I’ve seen other baseball pennants with similar fancy ... what do you call it, serifs? .... around the perimeter of the graphic. Maybe a Jackie pennant? Senators?
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Old 01-17-2021, 04:50 PM
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The number of sites Mark cites is scary. Talk about no stone unturned!
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Old 01-17-2021, 06:01 PM
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I have same pennant, in maroon. Seems to me I’ve seen other baseball pennants with similar fancy ... what do you call it, serifs? .... around the perimeter of the graphic. Maybe a Jackie pennant? Senators?
There is a Senators pennant--or it might be Nationals--with some stuff like that around the Capitol building (from when you could just stroll right in and do your business!)
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Old 01-17-2021, 09:10 PM
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Default New York Pennant Co.

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Nope. It's a P with a period. I have the same pennant, and it's clearly a P.

I would agree with Chris, that it likely stands for New York Pennant Co.
Mark, I totally agree: New York Pennant Co. made some really cool pennants. Their artwork was incredibly detailed; and, they used like 3-4 colors on every image.

I wonder why they made a Reds pennant; but nothing (to my knowledge) for the hometown Yankees, Dodgers, or Giants?

How close is is N.Y.P. Co.'s image of Crosley Field to Trench's, as seen on the latter's 1950s-era stadium pennants? The artwork sure looks similar.
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Last edited by Domer05; 01-17-2021 at 09:11 PM.
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Old 01-18-2021, 08:46 AM
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I’m pretty sure that there is a 1940 World Series pennant from same company with same graphic.
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Old 01-18-2021, 09:08 AM
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I’m pretty sure that there is a 1940 World Series pennant from same company with same graphic.
This one. Not mine.
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Old 01-18-2021, 05:40 PM
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2014, the good ol' days ....
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Last edited by thetahat; 01-18-2021 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 01-18-2021, 06:51 PM
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LOL! Good stuff Greg. Really appreciate everyone's input on the subject.
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Old 01-18-2021, 09:54 PM
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2014, the good ol' days ....
Oh man... If I was selling those two, I would be thrilled to realize half of those prices.
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Old 01-19-2021, 07:00 AM
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Oh man... If I was selling those two, I would be thrilled to realize half of those prices.
I suspect they both sold for less than that. A fatal flaw of Worthpoint is it shows the asking price for items with the best offer option, not the sold price. There are multiple sales of that pennant within months of these in the $250-$300 range.
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Old 01-19-2021, 10:27 AM
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I suspect they both sold for less than that. A fatal flaw of Worthpoint is it shows the asking price for items with the best offer option, not the sold price. There are multiple sales of that pennant within months of these in the $250-$300 range.
Ok, good to know. I was thinking there’s no way those prices could be real.
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Old 01-19-2021, 11:42 AM
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Default Not mine

Not mine, but some interesting ones from FB group pennant I’m on. One fellow is asking for a rough value on his two basketball pennants, if anyone has an idea? Thanks!
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Last edited by baseball tourist; 01-19-2021 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 01-19-2021, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
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I suspect they both sold for less than that. A fatal flaw of Worthpoint is it shows the asking price for items with the best offer option, not the sold price. There are multiple sales of that pennant within months of these in the $250-$300 range.
Well no I didn’t think that those prices reflected actual “value” or whatever they would get if auctioned now. That being said, it seems that the Best Offer option was instituted in October 2017. So I don’t think that applies here. More likely these were just off-the-rails auctions like that simple Cardinals pennant from a week or so ago. I would expect it to be $250-300 if auctioned today but plus/minus a big margin of error.
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Old 01-19-2021, 03:03 PM
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Well no I didn’t think that those prices reflected actual “value” or whatever they would get if auctioned now. That being said, it seems that the Best Offer option was instituted in October 2017. So I don’t think that applies here. More likely these were just off-the-rails auctions like that simple Cardinals pennant from a week or so ago. I would expect it to be $250-300 if auctioned today but plus/minus a big margin of error.
Regarding the Crosley Field Pennants, if you average it out, you are spot on...

$475 - $525 for the vibrant N.Y.P Co. version
$75 - $125 for the plainer, more faded version
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Old 01-19-2021, 03:25 PM
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Back from the framer.

As an Indians fan - I feel so uncomfortable with this hanging over my desk.

Rob - thank you for the working with me on it. I couldn't be more pleased
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Old 01-19-2021, 04:27 PM
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That Detroit pennant looks great in the frame, with that background. Very nice!
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Old 01-19-2021, 04:28 PM
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Back from the framer.

As an Indians fan - I feel so uncomfortable with this hanging over my desk.

Rob - thank you for the working with me on it. I couldn't be more pleased
A stunner! Beautiful matting and Framing... You can never go wrong with a solid black frame. Well done!

Last edited by perezfan; 01-19-2021 at 04:53 PM.
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