Returned cards from trimming scandal showing up on Ebay

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by shagrotn77

It really was all just a big smokescreen. I wonder if the FBI agents who were supposedly at the Natty a couple years ago were paid actors.

Covid hit at the perfect time for card doctors, TPAs and corrupt dealers. It likely put the FBI investigation on a back burner, while enabling the acceleration of prices for this trash.

[shagrotn77]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Covid hit at the perfect time for card doctors, TPAs and corrupt dealers. It likely put the FBI investigation on a back burner, while enabling the acceleration of prices for this trash.

I understand while some might think along these lines, but the FBI wasn't tasked with trying to cure or treat Covid. If there ever was an investigation, it could have continued. I never saw any change in the way the alleged offenders operated, so I have a hard time believing there was ever any heat on them at all.

[Andrew1975]

Originally Posted by shagrotn77

I understand while some might think along these lines, but the FBI wasn't tasked with trying to cure or treat Covid. If there ever was an investigation, it could have continued. I never saw any change in the way the alleged offenders operated, so I have a hard time believing there was ever any heat on them at all.

Federal grand juries have essentially been shut down for 8+ months. I'm quite sure that the very limited time/space the feds have to put in witnesses isn't being used for a baseball card/fraud investigation. If they plan to indict anyone they will probably need to have numerous witnesses testify in GJ... I am hopeful that is the case.

[honus94566]

Joke's on all of you that are willing to pay 10x the price for the same card, just because it comes in a "PSA 8" holder instead of "PSA 2".

Suckers

[Rhotchkiss]

Scott, you are saying the Lajoie and wajo have been called out as altered and then link the massive blowout thread. Which posts in that zillion-post thread contains the analysis of Lajoie and Wajo?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Scott, you are saying the Lajoie and wajo have been called out as altered and then link the massive blowout thread. Which posts in that zillion-post thread contains the analysis of Lajoie and Wajo?

Sorry I couldn't pin point them, but those cert #s are in the BO thread yes.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by shagrotn77

I understand while some might think along these lines, but the FBI wasn't tasked with trying to cure or treat Covid. If there ever was an investigation, it could have continued. I never saw any change in the way the alleged offenders operated, so I have a hard time believing there was ever any heat on them at all.

I have spoken to enough people in the industry who were directly questioned by the FBI to know this is not the case.

[Flintboy]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I have spoken to enough people in the industry who were directly questioned by the FBI to know this is not the case.

Then they’re doing a knock down job on curtailing the doctoring. It’s arguably worse now then it was a year ago. How much more evidence or dollar amount loss do they need?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Flintboy

Then they’re doing a knock down job on curtailing the doctoring. It’s arguably worse now then it was a year ago. How much more evidence or dollar amount loss do they need?

Yes, it's a huge disappointment, given the glaring and obvious evidence. The shady side of the hobby is making money hand over fist with no apparent repercussions. I don't know the extent that Covid interfered with the FBI investigation, but have to believe it was a "Godsend" to those who were most under the microscope.

[swarmee]

PWCC's lawyer responded back to this thread on a different message board; figured it was worth posting here.

Calvindog
Altered Cards Going Back to Their Owners?
There's a thread on Net 54 claiming that cards which were outed as altered on Blowout were returned to the owners, only to be resold on eBay.

Such a claim suggests that every outed card was immediately seized by either the FBI or the auctioneer who sold the altered card -- and then somehow returned them to their owners, only to be resold at a later time, still in the holders. Of course, this is false. I'll explain this s l o w l y so that everyone understands what occurred:

After the cards were outed, at least in the case of PWCC, attempts to contact the purchaser of the altered cards were made. In many instances contact was made and the owner of the card was given the option to receive a refund in exchange for the return of the card to PWCC. When the refund was requested, the card was returned to PWCC and sent to the FBI where it remains, never to be resold again.

In many instances, owners of outed cards refused the refund as they wanted to keep the cards despite allegations of alteration. It happened a LOT of times. Either the owner didn't believe their card was altered or didn't care. At that point, the FBI did not break down any doors to seize said cards. Sorry. The outed card, therefore, potentially could be resold despite the best efforts of PWCC.

In many instances, contact was made, but the owners no longer owned the outed card. In some instances the new owners could be found and contacted and again offers were made for partial or full refunds in exchange for the return of the card. Sometimes the cards were returned (and sent to the FBI) and in other instances they were not. Again, the FBI did not break down any doors to seize said cards. The outed cards, again, could potentially surface for sale later down the line.

In many other instances, no contact was made at all despite the best efforts of telephone calls, emails, etc. These cards potentially could end up being resold.

So, again, to clear up what was falsely claimed on Net 54: no outed cards were sent back to the owners by the FBI or PWCC. Any cards which resulted in refunds were sent from the owners to PWCC to the FBI. No cards were sent to PSA. If anyone has any questions on this subject, it might make some sense to think before posting or -- gasp -- contact me first with a question. I know, I know, asking questions takes some effort and effort is hard, but at least misinformation will not be spread publicly.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

That is not even remotely what is being suggested. I am stating, not suggesting, that cards that have been returned to the seller are now popping up for sale again. I personally know the previous owner of the Johnson card that was bought and returned. I have never mentioned any company or individual names in this thread other than PSA.