What is happening with baseball card prices?

[packs]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

I would disagree that shilling, shenanigans, or skullduggery on the whole is responsible for the upswing of the market that started in 2020. Sure, it exists in pockets - but to take the entire market up? It would have to be so prevalent that you would be hearing a lot more legit stories of people caught doing such things.

Look at PSA's Auction Prices Realized page for some of the more popular vintage cards. It's a good mix, and (at least historically) while it's not inclusive of every single sale, it's a good cross section of what is sold in different places and includes a lot of eBay listings. A lot of people look at sites like that and VCP, and it would probably be pretty easy to string together evidence on multiple sellers who are simply reporting bad data and relisting cards, were that truly happening en masse. It isn't.

Who said it's happening en masse? And why would it have to? There are two sellers that this board has created thread after thread about for YEARS. So, yes, I agree, it takes time to do this. But that time has been passing all along. These sellers are responsible for thousands of listings every month. Those PSA sales, those VCP sales, how closely are you scrutinizing the seller of the item? I bet you'll find a couple names pretty frequently.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by packs

Who said it's happening en masse? And why would it have to? There are two sellers that this board has created thread after thread about for YEARS. So, yes, I agree, it takes time to do this. But that time has been passing all along. These sellers are responsible for thousands of listings every month. Those PSA sales, those VCP sales, how closely are you scrutinizing the seller of the item? I bet you'll find a couple names pretty frequently.

So you believe that the market is being manipulated, and prices are moving on the whole only because of a few sellers? OK.

Then do as Adam suggested, and take PWCC, Probstein, and I don’t know Dean‘s maybe out of those sales results and re-baseline everything. If your new averages for particular cards come out way lower, then yes a few sellers could theoretically be doing this, but as to the sales themselves, then to me that would insinuate “en masse” as to their volumes.

I don’t buy it.


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[packs]

That's not how that would work. You would have to go back to pre-sale times when the prices of cards weren't being manipulated by auctions from sellers who bid their own cards up or allow consignors to bid on their own cards.

Like I said, if I consign a card, let's say a T206 Green Cobb, and I bid that card up to $8,000, but it doesn't actually sell to anybody, the next guy with the same card is going to judge it's value to be $8,000 because they think my cards sold for that.

It's a process that takes a long time. But that time has already passed.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by packs

That's not how that would work. You would have to go back to pre-sale times when the prices of cards weren't being manipulated by auctions from sellers who bid their own cards up or allow consignors to bid on their own cards.

Like I said, if I consign a card, let's say a T206 Green Cobb, and I bid that card up to $8,000, but it doesn't actually sell to anybody, the next guy with the same card is going to judge it's value to be $8,000 because they think my cards sold for that.

It's a process that takes a long time. But that time has already passed.

I'm talking about the current state of prices. You seem to be suggesting some kind of longer term card price manipulation scheme which seems to happen more often than not in whatever markets you would draw your sales data from. Again, I just don't buy that. It's possible that it happens in some cases, but across the board would be a stretch and difficult to prove. I also don't believe that the influence of a PWCC encourages one-off collectors on a budget to suddenly re-adjust values in their minds to the top of the scale, just because of a few sales that may not have been totally on the level.

[dio]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

So you believe that the market is being manipulated, and prices are moving on the whole only because of a few sellers? OK.

Then do as Adam suggested, and take PWCC, Probstein, and I don’t know Dean‘s maybe out of those sales results and re-baseline everything. If your new averages for particular cards come out way lower, then yes a few sellers could theoretically be doing this, but as to the sales themselves, then to me that would insinuate “en masse” as to their volumes.

I don’t buy it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't agree price move just because of few seller, more like covid period brings in a LOT of collector, especially the rich, look at the dude bought the 5.2 mil mantle, he's showing off everywhere, on tv, youtube etc... and all his 100 million buck buddies will want to do the same , it just have attracted the rich people into this hobby

There's just a huge demand for sportscard, especially the good ones
just look at the WTB in our BST section, never seen this before.
It is just Hot market, like tesla stocks, like bitcoin. and this hobby is addictive, and American now loves to showoff @ instagram, fb.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by dio

I don't agree price move just because of few seller, more like covid period brings in a LOT of collector, especially the rich, look at the dude bought the 5.2 mil mantle, he's showing off everywhere, on tv, youtube etc... and all his 100 million buck buddies will want to do the same , it just have attracted the rich people into this hobby

There's just a huge demand for sportscard, especially the good ones
just look at the WTB in our BST section, never seen this before.
It is just Hot market, like tesla stocks, like bitcoin. and this hobby is addictive, and American now loves to showoff @ instagram, fb.

Agreed that additional "rich" speculation and other competing demands for collector dollars that are suddenly now not there are likely way more responsible for the boom than massive, covert price manipulation by big dealers and auction houses.

[Exhibitman]

I've been selling into this wave for months and it is real. There are certainly some bogus transactions out there but I've been cleaning house on stuff I never thought I could sell except at massive discounts. My last AH consignment closed in January and the result exceeded my expectations by nearly 100%.

As for the $1200, $2000, or whatever, for someone making a good enough living to responsibly and regularly buy four-figure cards it is a financial blip. I am not wealthy and definitely not in a unique financial position, and I am telling you that the cards I bought in this horrible year had nothing to do with a stimulus check. I didn't even qualify to get one. For me it was not paying for all of the other leisure activities. I saved far more than $1200 just not going out to dinner over the last year and a multiple of that not going on any of the vacations or trips we planned. Hell, dinner and show for my wife and me is $300 or more, and a week in HI will cost us $5K. I go to a couple of concerts every summer. In 2019 summer I went to see Heart and Joan Jett (great show, BTW) with decent, not great, seats at the Hollywood Bowl and between that and dinner I dropped over $400. My floor seats for Green Day in 2017 plus dinner were over $400 for the pair:



And worth every dime!



My wife's salary got cut 20% at the start of this and we didn't even feel it because our spending dropped 35%. No dinners out, no maid, no trips, terminated gym memberships, no wardrobe since we are not going to formal offices, no commute expenses, no food at work costs, etc. That's where the money is. Plus, WTF else am I going to do with it, put it into the bank at 0.1%?

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I've been selling into this wave for months and it is real. There are certainly some bogus transactions out there but I've been cleaning house on stuff I never thought I could sell except at massive discounts. My last AH consignment closed in January and the result exceeded my expectations by nearly 100%.

As for the $1200, $2000, or whatever, for someone making a good enough living to responsibly and regularly buy four-figure cards it is a financial blip. I am not wealthy and definitely not in a unique financial position, and I am telling you that the cards I bought in this horrible year had nothing to do with a stimulus check. I didn't even qualify to get one. For me it was not paying for all of the other leisure activities. I saved far more than $1200 just not going out to dinner over the last year and a multiple of that not going on any of the vacations or trips we planned. Hell, dinner and show for my wife and me is $300 or more, and a week in HI will cost us $5K. I go to a couple of concerts every simmer. In 2019 summer I went to see Heart and Joan Jett (great show, BTW) with decent, not great, seats at the Hollywood Bowl and between that and dinner I dropped over $400. My floor seats for Green Day in 2017 plus dinner were over $400 for the pair:



My wife's salary got cut 20% at the start of this and we didn't even feel it because our spending dropped 35%.

Great Shot of the stage! I'm definitely looking forward to going back to concerts again! As a side note, It usually involves me traveling a state or so over. For the price of one at the Garden, I can get better tickets in Philadelphia, plus pay for my gas, parking and a Cheesesteak!

More of echoing what I was saying earlier. Spending is down for everyone, might as well throw it into our Hobby! I cannot speak to the bogus transactions part, but at this point with the way certain prices are going, I might have to sell cards which I always said were "Unsellable" I have to get the money for some of the other cards I want somehow!

[Exhibitman]

it was amazing! We were right next to the mosh pit. I am too old for that nonsense but it was a blast anyway. At 6'4" I am fine in a crowd like that, but my wife who is a foot shorter gets claustrophobic and refuses to go, so I have to go with my daughter, who is 5'10" and can throw an elbow like a power forward. A few more from the show: