eBay offer etiquette

[ClementeFanOh]

The different perspectives between the commenters who sell a lot on ebay,
and those who buy, is profound. I am a 21+ year ebay member (perfect
feedback, almost all as a buyer) who has tired of ebay and most often won't
buy there anymore. A few observations/ pointers from my experience:

1) There is nothing wrong with contacting a person with a card and
making an offer that reflects fair market value, especially when there's a
Make Offer option. I typically don't inundate the seller with sales data unless
they open the door with their own commentary ( "It's a fair price"..."I see
great potential for this card increasing value"... or my personal favorite "I
paid too much for this card and can't go lower"). Sellers who insist that their
$200 card is magically worth $400, despite overwhelming evidence to the
contrary, deserve at least a "scared straight" tour of card collecting hell

2) Someone was throwing around the term "tool" in reference to buyers.
Here are some indicators from a buyer's view, that the seller may be a
"tool":

a) endlessly cycling the same card at the same price for YEARS, without
changing the price (hint- your price is too high)

b) enabling Make an Offer, then automatically rejecting any offer made

c) behaving like ebay owns your cards, rather than you. The amount of
sellers who won't discuss sales outside of ebay- even after the auction
ENDS without a bid!- is astounding. Ebay is a clown show in most cases,
and the desire to transact on venues like net54 instead is a wise one. I
suppose the best way to say this is, 2 party sales are preferable to ones
involving a third party.

In the end, I think sellers would do well to recognize that potential
buyers are a wee bit important in this equation- especially when the seller
has been a buyer himself time and time again. There is nothing wrong
with wanting fair treatment from the seller when you are buying (ie,
accurate shipping costs, clear communication, and realistic price tags).
After all, it's what sellers expect when the shoe is on the other foot.

Trent King

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

The different perspectives between the commenters who sell a lot on ebay,
and those who buy, is profound. I am a 21+ year ebay member (perfect
feedback, almost all as a buyer) who has tired of ebay and most often won't
buy there anymore. A few observations/ pointers from my experience:

1) There is nothing wrong with contacting a person with a card and
making an offer that reflects fair market value, especially when there's a
Make Offer option. I typically don't inundate the seller with sales data unless
they open the door with their own commentary ( "It's a fair price"..."I see
great potential for this card increasing value"... or my personal favorite "I
paid too much for this card and can't go lower"). Sellers who insist that their
$200 card is magically worth $400, despite overwhelming evidence to the
contrary, deserve at least a "scared straight" tour of card collecting hell

2) Someone was throwing around the term "tool" in reference to buyers.
Here are some indicators from a buyer's view, that the seller may be a
"tool":

a) endlessly cycling the same card at the same price for YEARS, without
changing the price (hint- your price is too high)

b) enabling Make an Offer, then automatically rejecting any offer made

c) behaving like ebay owns your cards, rather than you. The amount of
sellers who won't discuss sales outside of ebay- even after the auction
ENDS without a bid!- is astounding. Ebay is a clown show in most cases,
and the desire to transact on venues like net54 instead is a wise one. I
suppose the best way to say this is, 2 party sales are preferable to ones
involving a third party.

In the end, I think sellers would do well to recognize that potential
buyers are a wee bit important in this equation- especially when the seller
has been a buyer himself time and time again. There is nothing wrong
with wanting fair treatment from the seller when you are buying (ie,
accurate shipping costs, clear communication, and realistic price tags).
After all, it's what sellers expect when the shoe is on the other foot.

Trent King

I have done thousands of transactions on and off Ebay over 30 years as both buyer and seller. I think a really great point you brought up is the use of the "make an offer" option. If a seller uses that, they are inviting an offer. If they don't want an offer - pretty simple - don't use the option. At best I would send a note asking if there is any "room" in an asking price to the seller of a listing with no "make an offer" option.

As a seller, I usually use the "make an offer" option. I often receive offers that I see as ridiculously low and simply decline them. I've also started to use the "automatically decline offers below....." option.

One thing I have learned is the market is a very inefficient place - a single sale at a particular price is not always a good or fair indicator of "market value". For more regularly traded issues with multiple recent sales all in a similar price window - that is what I would call support for a particular price point and that too not without exception.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

b) enabling Make an Offer, then automatically rejecting any offer made

I think it has been mentioned on other threads that eBay will sometimes add the Make An Offer option to listings that have been up for a while without the seller knowing that it happens. If that is true then that could be a reason why all offers are rejected.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by jayshum

I think it has been mentioned on other threads that eBay will sometimes add the Make An Offer option to listings that have been up for a while without the seller knowing that it happens. If that is true then that could be a reason why all offers are rejected.

Ebay will send an email when they do that and it takes 10 seconds to turn offers back off again.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Ebay will send an email when they do that and it takes 10 seconds to turn offers back off again.

For sellers with a large number of listings, it's probably not worth their time to go and turn them off.

[Exhibitman]

"2) Someone was throwing around the term "tool" in reference to buyers.
Here are some indicators from a buyer's view, that the seller may be a
"tool":

a) endlessly cycling the same card at the same price for YEARS, without
changing the price (hint- your price is too high)

b) enabling Make an Offer, then automatically rejecting any offer made

c) behaving like ebay owns your cards, rather than you. The amount of
sellers who won't discuss sales outside of ebay- even after the auction
ENDS without a bid!- is astounding. Ebay is a clown show in most cases,
and the desire to transact on venues like net54 instead is a wise one. I
suppose the best way to say this is, 2 party sales are preferable to ones
involving a third party."

Hey, Trent, gotta disagree with you on some of this.

eBay allows an automatic rejection on best offers below a certain level. I use it to weed out lowballers. My main issue with eBay is that the anonymity allows for behavior no one would engage in at a card show. I mean, if you were at the National and you saw a Babe Ruth card for sale for $3000 would you go up to the seller and offer $300? Of course not, you'd be embarrassed to even try it.
Yet that is exactly what I get on eBay all the time. Same with arguing the price. No one at a card show would do that, so why do it on eBay?

As far as taking things off eBay, it could get the seller in trouble, as noted above. The polite way to do this is to contact the seller through N54 rather than through eBay, so that the eBay thought police don't come down on the seller. Demanding an off-eBay transaction through the eBay PM system is inconsiderate to the seller.

i also disagree with the idea that the buyer is more important than the seller. They are equals. I don't need to sell a specific buyer anything and I am tired of buyers acting like they are doing me a favor by making low offers on my inventory, especially in a seller's market like the last year.

[ClementeFanOh]

Adam- you are certainly free to disagree. Out of concern for space, I
abbreviated my remarks just to get the main points across. In answer
to yours:

1) automatic rejections- I have made offers that were a mere 10% lower
than the BIN- say, $360 rather than $400. They have been rejected, so
I messaged the seller and try to discern what they are looking for. Sellers
have directly told me that they reject offers under the BIN. So, why offer?

2) taking things off ebay- I have NEVER asked an ebay seller to end an
auction early. I ask them to contact me when/if the auction ends without a
bid (usually, this is for people whose sale price is far too high). Here's the
important part- when that auction ends, so does ebay's interest. Period.
Despite that reality, some sellers (not all, some) behave like it's heresy to
sell outside ebay. It's as if they've forgotten the main goal- to sell the card!

3) Buyers> sellers all day long. One thing sellers tend to overlook ( to their
favor, of course) is that buyers set card values, NOT sellers. I recall reading
an anecdote that a 1970 price guide listed the T206 Wagner as a $100 card.
Today it's a $1 million dollar card, and it's foolish to say that $1m today is
the equivalent of $100 in 1970. The point is that, if buyers "decide" over
time with their wallets/spending habits that certain cards are more or
less valuable, then sellers can't blindly stick to what they expect, or
demand, or- even worse- think they are entitled to. Getting back in
some way to the original motivation for this topic, I have consistently been
underwhelmed by the subject matter knowledge/hobby interest/ integrity
of an uncomfortable percentage of ebay sellers. Naturally there are some
good ones; however, I find it's better in many ways to fish in better waters
like net54, and establish relationships with folks I like or trust. That way, I
don't have to argue with some random dude who expects me to pay triple
shipping costs on ebay so he can squeeze extra profit- and who takes
offense when I call him on it.

Trent King

[Exhibitman]

"3) Buyers> sellers all day long. One thing sellers tend to overlook ( to their
favor, of course) is that buyers set card values, NOT sellers."

I disagree. The phrase "seller's market" applies at certain times, like right now, where items in many categories are getting multiple offers and setting new price records. In that circumstance, the seller has the leverage, and proceeding on the premise that the buyer is always the superior party means you won't get the card. The same is true of a rare card: buyers do not set the value, sellers do. I am often approached to sell something I have that is an only known example, one of one, etc. My answer is to set a price and not haggle. if the buyer wants that price, fine, we have a deal. If not, they are free to go find it somewhere else. Which they cannot. 90% of the time I end up getting my price. 50% of the time I am depressed that I sold it, but that is another story altogether.

[Gary_Carter_Rookie]

Originally Posted by jayshum

I think it has been mentioned on other threads that eBay will sometimes add the Make An Offer option to listings that have been up for a while without the seller knowing that it happens. If that is true then that could be a reason why all offers are rejected.

...And it defaults to 50%! That is a dirty little game the seller's "partner," eBay, is playing.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

c) behaving like ebay owns your cards, rather than you. The amount of
sellers who won't discuss sales outside of ebay- even after the auction
ENDS without a bid!- is astounding.

Its against Ebay rules to takes sales off Ebay and your account can be suspended. A 30 day suspension could be devastating to some sellers so its not worth the risk.