Hey, pennant guys

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

You truly are a lunatic. I referenced the defect in the graphic in my earlier response. Can you please go back and circle where you mentioned "Super Glue". Oh what's that? You meant "glue" not "Super Glue"? Are you lying or did you misremember what you had actually said in the email? In Manco Land is only Greg allowed to misremember? All I remembered was that you complained about something that was visible in the picture.

And here's the fun part. I paid $280 for that pennant. I wouldn't have paid $280 if the paint was hanging off as you theorize it must have been. Then I let you have it for $230 and on top of that I refunded another $50! So by all means, if you want to sell me that beautiful pennant for $180, I'll take it. Where do I send the money?

$180 for a 1960 All Star Game pennant that is in otherwise mint condition and you think I'm ripping you off? Prove it by selling it back to me.

And since we're sharing emails, here's my initial reply in which I so egregiously insulted him...though it's odd he'd be offended by being told he's no longer welcome to buy pennants from someone he considers dishonest. Then again, he continued to buy and/or try to buy my pennants long after the 1960 AS Game sale so who knows how this guy thinks.

By all means send it back. As an FYI...I took the spine and tassels off to soak them in Oxy Clean foam. They were pretty dirty but not damaged so I figured they'd clean up nicely which they did. I thought the spine was reattached pretty cleanly but if you're not satisfied, no worries.

It will probably be easier for both of us if you just don't buy anything from me. Seems you have quite a few issues with me (and others). No offense intended. Hope you understand.

PS...I highly recommend Oxi Clean Foam for cleaning tassels and spines. Works fast and doesn't damage the material at all.

Deal. I’ll ABSOLUTELY sell you back the ASG pennant for $180, please add $5 towards shipping, I’ll pay the rest and mail flat. I have it stored in a tub. I was going to sell it soon, but since I actually have integrity, I was going to have to disclose the repair/alteration, thus I was not confident that I would get a good return as a result. So you fixed that for me, thank you. You will surely do much better with it, maybe even get $300-400 or more, since you have clearly demonstrated to be without a conscience and will likely not disclose the issue to potential buyers. And if the buyer actually does bring it to your attention, you can once again pretend not to know about it.

You have my email address, you can send it via PayPal, wait until Monday if you want, I’ll mail on Monday and post the receipt.

Oh and I apologize for not referring to the *type* of glue in my initial email, as if that is relevant, of course I figured you’d do anything but own up to your dishonesty.

Thanks for the purchase,

Greg

P.S. ... If you were so certain upon me buying that altered pennant that I would have an issue with it ... you wrote something about “getting popcorn ready” ... why didn’t you just reach out to me immediately to inform me of what you did to it, let me decide, I would have let you cancel and you could have reposted. You knew full well the shadiness of your own actions, you just hoped someone who didn’t know any better would buy it. Again: we are here right now because you didn’t have the decency to disclose an alteration in a sale. Again: it’s much easier to not be a lowlife.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Deal. I’ll ABSOLUTELY sell you back the ASG pennant for $180, please add $5 towards shipping, I’ll pay the rest and mail flat. I have it stored in a tub. I was going to sell it soon, but since I actually have integrity, I was going to have to disclose the repair/alteration, thus I was not confident that I would get a good return as a result. So you fixed that for me, thank you. You will surely do much better with it, maybe even get $300-400 or more, since you have clearly demonstrated to be without a conscience and will likely not disclose the issue to potential buyers. And if the buyer actually does bring it to your attention, you can once again pretend not to know about it.

You have my email address, you can send it via PayPal, wait until Monday if you want, I’ll mail on Monday and post the receipt.

Oh and I apologize for not referring to the *type* of glue in my initial email, as if that is relevant, of course I figured you’d do anything but own up to your dishonesty.

Thanks for the purchase,

Greg

P.S. ... If you were so certain upon me buying that altered pennant that I would have an issue with it ... you wrote something about “getting popcorn ready” ... why didn’t you just reach out to me immediately to inform me of what you did to it, let me decide, I would have let you cancel and you could have reposted. You knew full well the shadiness of your own actions, you just hoped someone who didn’t know any better would buy it. Again: we are here right now because you didn’t have the decency to disclose an alteration in a sale. Again: it’s much easier to not be a lowlife.

My reply to this is going to be so good...but now dinner is ready. Stay tuned.

Greg...You might want to get your popcorn ready.

[ooo-ribay]

c’mon guys....take a deep breath....life’s too short.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

c’mon guys....take a deep breath....life’s too short.

Oh you’re absolutely right, this is my cue to exit stage left. Let’s again remember how we got here, a guy altered a pennant himself and didn’t disclose it, then shamelessly insinuated that I was the problem in the transaction. I think it’s safe to say that any serious collector here reading this would be equally perturbed to be on the other end of that purchase.

But then it got worse. I raised this issue to get other opinions because (a) I was personally curious and (b) this person would get some confirmation that his actions were not on the level, so maybe he would not do it again. Mark, I guess your “OCD” makes you a card carrying member of the Uber Anal Retentive Freak Club. We surely aren’t alone.

But even so I did so without mentioning him by name or even hinting at his identity. He decided to make it personal, revealing even more about his character, even including my last name multiple times which is nowhere else on this site, not even in my profile. So we are crossing multiple boundaries here. Not to mention the lies and the unhinged, childlike commentary.

Now I get the reluctance to take sides, and that’s not what I’m after anyway. You all might be acting neutral - and that’s okay! I get that - but I have no doubt that some of you who have bought from him in the past might be quietly taking another look at those items. But anyway, this is now a clear distinction between ethical and unethical conduct, one that originates in a violation of what I consider a cardinal rule of collecting. Not the alterations per se, but the lack of disclosure. And so this place may not be for me anymore for this all to be tolerated in its entirety. Not that I want anyone booted, of course not. He means nothing to me if he’s here or not. But at some point there needs to be more standing up for what’s right.

So it looks like I’m out .... And that’s fine! I’ll keep collecting.

Greg

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Deal. I’ll ABSOLUTELY sell you back the ASG pennant for $180, please add $5 towards shipping, I’ll pay the rest and mail flat. I have it stored in a tub. I was going to sell it soon, but since I actually have integrity, I was going to have to disclose the repair/alteration, thus I was not confident that I would get a good return as a result. So you fixed that for me, thank you. You will surely do much better with it, maybe even get $300-400 or more, since you have clearly demonstrated to be without a conscience and will likely not disclose the issue to potential buyers. And if the buyer actually does bring it to your attention, you can once again pretend not to know about it.

You have my email address, you can send it via PayPal, wait until Monday if you want, I’ll mail on Monday and post the receipt.

Oh and I apologize for not referring to the *type* of glue in my initial email, as if that is relevant, of course I figured you’d do anything but own up to your dishonesty.

Thanks for the purchase,

Greg

P.S. ... If you were so certain upon me buying that altered pennant that I would have an issue with it ... you wrote something about “getting popcorn ready” ... why didn’t you just reach out to me immediately to inform me of what you did to it, let me decide, I would have let you cancel and you could have reposted. You knew full well the shadiness of your own actions, you just hoped someone who didn’t know any better would buy it. Again: we are here right now because you didn’t have the decency to disclose an alteration in a sale. Again: it’s much easier to not be a lowlife.

Greg...I seriously contemplated cancelling the transaction but as I said I didn't realize it was you until I created the shipping label and I didn't feel like throwing the $10 postage away....or waiting 2 months for the USPS to hopefully refund it. And I knew it would be a problem because you've been a pain in the a$$ in every way possible since we started corresponding, less than a year ago.

"Do the tassels wiggle?"

"I see a loose string, so I'll offer $50 less than the $125 you're asking"

"This defect was in the picture but I'm going buy it anyway, then return it"

"I'm interested in your beautiful 1940 Tigers pennant but it has to be at my price...oh and (this is good) you have to throw in another pennant"

"Hey can you put me in touch with your contact in XXXXXX?"

"Hey did you give your contact my info yet?"

"Hey the pennants arrived but i'm going to have to return them". (Tell us Greg...Am I the only person you contacted about returning pennants this year? Popcorn munch popcorn munch popcorn munch...)

Bottom line...I knew what was coming because you're predictable and I've heard similar stories from others.

I haven't even gotten to the good part yet...And what follows isn't it either.

Who's the liar Greg? You expect anyone here to believe that you're worried about losing money at $180? If that's the case, why would you accept the $50 refund? That doesn't make sense at all. Come on man. And you were "just about to sell it"? LOL. But you held on to it for 7 months because....

Surely this wasn't your best effort was it? And for everyone's benefit, I've attached a picture of the $180 pennant Greg's "worried about taking a loss on". BTW...My $180 sell price INCLUDED SHIPPING. But, hey...You're cheap. I'll throw in an extra $5. No problem.

It's about to get good. If you have to pee, I suggest you go now.

You're either a bad liar or a great mis-rememberer. Here's our correspondence from September regarding the 1960 All Star Pennant (if anyone would like me to forward the email, just reach out).

Sept 18, 2020...From Greg:

Hey Rob how are you? Just wanted to say I got the pennants, thank you. One thing about the All-Star game pennant I wanted to bring to your attention. Let me say in advance I’m sure that this was something that existed when you got it, and were unaware. It looks like at the bottom of the scroll where the managers name is listed, Walter Alston, that the O in his name looks repaired, as if the white inside was glued back in place. Close up it looks like there was glue and some discoloring. When you pinch it, it is thicker, too. I didn’t notice this in your pics on eBay or net54. (Attaches are closeups, coordinate it with your existing pics, you can see it looks a bit unusual.) You’re a pennant guy so I’m sure you understand, are you willing to accept a return? I do like the other Athletics pennant ... what if anything do you suggest?

Sept 18, 2020...From Me:

Hey Greg...No worries. I never even noticed that. It looked like a very clean pennant to me. I guess I'm more focused own the spine/tassels and tip. Can you tell what was actually repaired? Seems odd unless there's a hole or something. Of course, you can return the All Star and I'll refund the $230 or both for the full $350. Whatever you prefer. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Sept 19, 2020...From Greg:

Rob thanks for understanding. It’s not a hole that goes all the way through but like someone replaced or fixed the paint inside the ‘O’ which as a result is larger than the other letters. You’ll see what I mean when you get it. I’ll return both if you don’t mind. Will pack and resend as they came, my earliest opportunity to go to the post office will be Tuesday though, if that’s okay. Thanks again.

Sept 19, 2020...From Me:

Weird. I just compared it to others on Worthpoint. There are only 3 NL versions (all different colors) and the only black one had the same "O" like that but it could be the same exact pennant. If so, the O was like that in 2014 too. Don't understand the point of making a repair to something so small unless there was a hole . I'll check it out when you send back.

Sept 19, 2020...From Greg:

Hey Rob ... I was packing these up to return and decided (if okay) to hang onto the other A’s pennant. Was a little steep on its own but it’s nice, it replaces one that I have in lesser condition. Thank you for the option, I appreciate it. Regards

Sept 19, 2020...From Me:

Sure Greg. Your call. I'm ok either way. If you want to keep the All Star, I'd refund $50 if that does anything for you.

Sept 19, 2020...From Greg:

Oops emailed crossed... I wonder if it is same pennant, there are other features that would identify it ... do you have a pic?

Sept 19, 2020...From Me:

I've attached. The resolution isn't the best on them but there are four. I compared to mine and it's hard to say. Don't see much to differentiate, though the colors are more vibrant on mine. Might just be the lighting in the other pictures washing them out.

Sept 19, 2020...From Greg:

Ok I will check when I get home, at baseball practice now. I do see a little dot above the L in Musial that shows up in your pic and in Worthpoint so am inclined to think same pennant ... unless of course that too is a shared imperfection? Not sure ..

You'll note quite a different tone in the discussion back then. You'll also note, whatever was done to that pennant...if anything... was done in 2014 at the latest. I bought this pennant in 2019. I didn't even buy my first baseball pennant until I moved to Texas in 2016. I don't think I even joined Net54 until 2015 (don't quote me on that Greg lest you think I'm lying...I'll have to check the date).

Here's the verbiage from that 2014 listing:

NEAR MINT VINTAGE VERY RARE PENNANT FROM THE 1960 ALL STAR GAME IN KANSAS CITY MISSOURI. ADD $8.00 SHIPPING

Compare that verbiage to what I use in my ebay listings. Not even close. I don't use all caps. I always offer free shipping. So I didn't own this pennant in 2014 when it clearly already had the imperfection.

What we have here is pretty clear. Greg falsely accusing me publicly of altering a pennant when he knew I didn't do it. People get sued over things like that Greg, so I just have to ask...Are you still on record accusing me of altering the 1960 All Star Game pennant?

[thetahat]

Actually, you doesn’t understand defamation law, along with most elements of common decency, and the fact that I simply don’t trust you, nor should anyone actually. I’ll expect your payment Monday.

[ooo-ribay]

My gosh, fellas.....

[thetahat]

Oh one last thing, I do greatly appreciate the discussions I’ve had with the rest of you, you’re all great guys and have contributed a ton to my love of collecting. I’d name you all but would be afraid of leaving someone out by accident. You know who you are. Feel free to reach me by email if you ever get the urge to say hello or discuss pennants.

Greg the UARF

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Oh one last thing, I do greatly appreciate the discussions I’ve had with the rest of you, you’re all great guys and have contributed a ton to my love of collecting. I’d name you all but would be afraid of leaving someone out by accident. You know who you are. Feel free to reach me by email if you ever get the urge to say hello or discuss pennants.

Greg the UARF

Is this part where we're all supposed to beg you to stay? What are you 12?

[Jgwrestlng8]

This is the greatest Pennant thread ever. We are such a niche group and have some of the best (if not all) pennants in the world.

Let's try our best to move forward as group. Occasionally we all have different views but PENNANTS unite us all.

I have been collecting with my father for 26 years. I have bought from numerous members over the years and they have helped me find pennants I have been dying for. I have never shared photos with the group but though for the sake of the tread I would include one. I had custom shelving built in my home to display pennants. Here is one of my displays.

Long live Pennants and our Group!
-Jordan

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Actually, you doesn’t understand defamation law, along with most elements of common decency, and the fact that I simply don’t trust you, nor should anyone actually. I’ll expect your payment Monday.

Answer the question Greg...Did you accuse me of altering the pennant when you knew I didn't?