Fraud in the hobby

Originally Posted by dio

There is fraud in wall street
Basically everything in this world there is fraud if there's money involve

Yep, just watch American Greed. A whole TV series built on stories of fraud. Bill Mastro was on one episode. It's a shame we have so much an annual TV series can be made from the stories.

[Johnny630]

Does anyone really think the card doctors/fraudsters could, yet alone be charged but be found guilty by a jury of their peers ?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Does anyone really think the card doctors/fraudsters could, yet alone be charged but be found quality by a jury of their piers ?

.

[packs]

Pier review

[Peter_Spaeth]

For 10 points name a song whose lyrics include the word pier.

[ASF123]

Paul Simon, "Still Crazy After All These Yiers"?

[packs]

Sitting on the pier of the bay

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

For 10 points name a song whose lyrics include the word pier.

Blondie did a clever little number called "Love at the Pier", but I doubt that's the one you're looking for?

[moeson]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

For 10 points name a song whose lyrics include the word pier.

4th of July (Sandy)

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by moeson

4th of July (Sandy)

Dammit, I should have gotten that one right away. Huge Springsteen fan.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by moeson

4th of July (Sandy)

And another? Clue -- 60s.

[timzcardz]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

For 10 points name a song whose lyrics include the word pier.

Beach Boys of course . . . Surfin' Safari

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by timzcardz

Beach Boys of course . . . Surfin' Safari

Damn I missed that one myself. Still have another in mind.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

For 10 points name a song whose lyrics include the word pier.

Pretty sure it's in Surfin' Safari

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Pretty sure it's in Surfin' Safari

Already named above.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

..be found quality by a jury...

Sadly, yes. The card doctors have been found to be "quality" by many.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Sadly, yes. The card doctors have been found to be "quality" by many.

Man You Make a Couple Spelling mistakes and you get destroyed oh well I’m a easy target I suppose.

Hope y’all enjoyed the laughs at my disposal.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Wimberleycardcollector

Yep, just watch American Greed. A whole TV series built on stories of fraud. Bill Maestro was on one episode. It's a shame we have so much an annual TV series can be made from the stories.

Since we are in "spell check mode" it's actually Mastro, as opposed to the guy pictured below...

But agree with your point. John Rogers was also more recently featured on American Greed. Next year's episode should be quite interesting, with far too many potential candidates to speculate who'll be the "star". The frontrunners are Moser, Huigens and Orlando. But Forman, Heritage and the Phantom Cracker Jack Butcher might be primed for a late run.

Stay tuned!

[packs]

My issue with Maestro stems from an unsuccessful attempt at renting a house in Tuscany

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by packs

My issue with Maestro stems from an unsuccessful attempt at renting a house in Tuscany

Nice. My problem involved being forced to hold a note until it caused the roof of the opera hall to cave in, maiming me. There is video of the incident.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4AOKEjbPgA

Originally Posted by Wimberleycardcollector

Yep, just watch American Greed. A whole TV series built on stories of fraud. Bill Mastro was on one episode. It's a shame we have so much an annual TV series can be made from the stories.

Corrected for those who find joy in pointing out other people's mistakes.

[jchcollins]

"Fraud" in the hobby has been around as long as there has been a hobby, I hate to tell you. It's just got a lot more light on it now because we have graders and dealers and auction houses who can stand to benefit tremendously more from the fraud, and the technology / scans / wherewithal to detect 1/16 of an inch or less of perfect trimming, recoloring, bleaching, soaking, what have you. We also perhaps more importantly have the technology to share and disseminate the details of this fraud en masse quickly. Is this bad? Sure. But did certain unscrupulous people also do similar, if much cruder card doctoring in 1968? 1975? 1982? 1990? Of course they did. It simply did not get a ton of light on it due to the way the hobby worked and communicated at the time. Even so, one could argue this was the impetus for the birth of professional grading. But I digress.

Bottom line, are you happy with your cards? Do you know enough about them to detect the red flags of what may be a basic doctoring job? Then don't buy those cards. I've been doing this for 35 years and most of the vintage (my main focus as a kid...) that I had then was beat up to begin with. I will admit to liking nice, properly slabbed midgrade cards, but if too many of those become ripe with suspicion over alteration, then it's no problem for me to go back to buying lower grade raw cards (for cheaper...) that I don't suspect of having been altered. Just speaking personally, it would take things getting a lot worse than they have been over the previous 3-5 years with the scandals for me to get that much more disgusted with the hobby to where I would consider leaving entirely. But each unto their own.

Originally Posted by jchcollins

"Fraud" in the hobby has been around as long as there has been a hobby, I hate to tell you. It's just got a lot more light on it now because we have graders and dealers and auction houses who can stand to benefit tremendously more from the fraud, and the technology / scans / wherewithall to detect 1/16 of an inch or less of perfect trimming, recoloring, bleaching, soaking, what have you. We also perhaps more importantly have the technology to share and disseminate the details of this fraud en masse quickly. Is this bad? Sure. Bud did certain unscrupulous people also do similar, if much cruder card doctoring in 1968? 1975? 1982? 1990? Of course they did. It simply did not get a ton of light on it due to the way the hobby worked and communicated at the time. Even so, one could argue this was the impetus for the birth of professional grading. But I digress.

Bottom line, are you happy with your cards? Do you know enough about them to detect the red flags of what may be a basic doctoring job? Then don't buy those cards. I've been doing this for 35 years and most of the vintage (my main focus as a kid...) that I had then was beat up to begin with. I will admit to liking nice, properly slabbed midgrade cards, but if too many of those become ripe with suspect over alteration, then it's no problem for me to go back to buying lower grade raw cards (for cheaper...) that I don't suspect of having been altered. Just speaking personally, it would take things getting a lot worse than they have been over the previous 3-5 years with the scandals for me to get that much more disgusted with the hobby to where I would consider leaving entirely. But each unto their own.

Well said. I don't stress over baseball card collecting. But then again it's a hobby for me and not tied to financial gains or retirement. It all started with my love of baseball and continues to be tied to that. I also don't let politics ruin my love for the game.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Wimberleycardcollector

Well said. I don't stress over baseball card collecting. But then again it's a hobby for me and not tied to financial gains or retirement. It all started with my love of baseball and continues to be tied to that. I also don't let politics ruin my love for the game.

Thanks. Ugh, I see I cannot type or spell today.

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Thanks. Ugh, I see I cannot type or spell today.

LOL. Don't worry the grammar police will let you know.

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

"Fraud" in the hobby has been around as long as there has been a hobby, I hate to tell you. It's just got a lot more light on it now because we have graders and dealers and auction houses who can stand to benefit tremendously more from the fraud, and the technology / scans / wherewithal to detect 1/16 of an inch or less of perfect trimming, recoloring, bleaching, soaking, what have you. We also perhaps more importantly have the technology to share and disseminate the details of this fraud en masse quickly. Is this bad? Sure. But did certain unscrupulous people also do similar, if much cruder card doctoring in 1968? 1975? 1982? 1990? Of course they did. It simply did not get a ton of light on it due to the way the hobby worked and communicated at the time. Even so, one could argue this was the impetus for the birth of professional grading. But I digress.

Bottom line, are you happy with your cards? Do you know enough about them to detect the red flags of what may be a basic doctoring job? Then don't buy those cards. I've been doing this for 35 years and most of the vintage (my main focus as a kid...) that I had then was beat up to begin with. I will admit to liking nice, properly slabbed midgrade cards, but if too many of those become ripe with suspicion over alteration, then it's no problem for me to go back to buying lower grade raw cards (for cheaper...) that I don't suspect of having been altered. Just speaking personally, it would take things getting a lot worse than they have been over the previous 3-5 years with the scandals for me to get that much more disgusted with the hobby to where I would consider leaving entirely. But each unto their own.

Terrific post.