Show-n-Tell which Tobacco cards you have are your favorites, post as many as you like

[DixieBaseball]

Ted - Per your comments below... I absolutely agree these cards were randomly attached to Coupon Cartons. (See my Examples below) : The Greminger has Carton layer/residue on the reverse still stuck to it and the Coupon Carton has a patchy area in upper right hand corner and is missing a thin layer of carton where something was attached to it and was removed. Plenty of Type 1 Coupon examples with the missing paper in the same spot on the upper middle back. Now look at the carton below... Unfortunately, I have only seen 2 Cartons in my life as they are fragile and have not survived and I own one. I wish I could find the other one to review for paper loss to the carton and see if it is in the same spot. Doesn't have to be as you could attach the card anywhere I suppose, but it makes sense that the upper right of the carton would have the card attached and consistent with pattern of the paper loss on card and carton.

The ones who disagree with us are unaware that these cards were NOT meant to be "stiffiners" in cigarette packs. The initial offering of the COUPON
cigarettes was in rectangular cartons containing 200 (or more) loose cigarettes.....circa 1909 - 1910).
Many of the cards were inserted in these cartons, while others were pasted on the outside of the carton. Hence, the paper loss on the backs of some
of these cards (e.g. my Cobb).

[rats60]

Favorite card, love the colors.


Favorite set

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by DixieBaseball

Ted - Per your comments below... I absolutely agree these cards were randomly attached to Coupon Cartons. (See my Examples below) : The Greminger has Carton layer/residue on the reverse still stuck to it and the Coupon Carton has a patchy area in upper right hand corner and is missing a thin layer of carton where something was attached to it and was removed. Plenty of Type 1 Coupon examples with the missing paper in the same spot on the upper middle back. Now look at the carton below... Unfortunately, I have only seen 2 Cartons in my life as they are fragile and have not survived and I own one. I wish I could find the other one to review for paper loss to the carton and see if it is in the same spot. Doesn't have to be as you could attach the card anywhere I suppose, but it makes sense that the upper right of the carton would have the card attached and consistent with pattern of the paper loss on card and carton.

The ones who disagree with us are unaware that these cards were NOT meant to be "stiffiners" in cigarette packs. The initial offering of the COUPON
cigarettes was in rectangular cartons containing 200 (or more) loose cigarettes.....circa 1909 - 1910).
Many of the cards were inserted in these cartons, while others were pasted on the outside of the carton. Hence, the paper loss on the backs of some
of these cards (e.g. my Cobb).

If the paper loss on your carton is from having a type 1 glued to it that
would mean they were printed after the t206's according to Ted. He said
your carton is 1913 or later because it has Liggett & Myers on it.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Pat R

If the paper loss on your carton is from having a type 1 glued to it that
would mean they were printed after the t206's according to Ted. He said
your carton is 1913 or later because it has Liggett & Myers on it.

The L & M label on these cartons proves nothing in determining when the 1910 COUPON cards were printed. All this indicates is that some 1910 COUPON cards were affixed
to these cartons post ATC Divesture.
The most significant key to determining when the 1910 cards were printed (besides the 48 subjects from the 350-only Series) is in the labelling on the backs of these cards,
namely "COUPON"

The QUOTES surrounding the Brand name signify that ATC has not yet received the Registered TRADEMARK of this new brand (circa 1909/1910) at time of their printing.

Other such examples of QUOTED new Brands are these...........





. .



TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

The L & M label on these cartons proves nothing in determining when the 1910 COUPON cards were printed. All this indicates is that some 1910 COUPON cards were affixed
to these cartons post ATC Divesture.
The most significant key to determining when the 1910 cards were printed (besides the 48 subjects from the 350-only Series) is in the labelling on the backs of these cards,
namely "COUPON"

The QUOTES surrounding the Brand name signify that ATC has not yet received the Registered TRADEMARK of this new brand (circa 1909/1910) at time of their printing.

Other such examples of QUOTED new Brands are these...........





. .



TED Z

T206 Reference
.

As you like to say we have discussed this already Ted.

First of we know the Coupon Cigarettes existed as early as 1908

Originally Posted by tedzan

That's the 1908 Times Picayune article which I referred to regarding the "COUPON" Cigarettes brand. I knew you would find it.

Come on Pat, this is silly...."but it doesn't say anything about baseball pictures.".

T206's were not issued until approx. a year later (circa Spring/Summer 1909).

Anyway, thanks for finding this Newspaper article.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

and the quotes seemed to be used on tobacco products frequently back then

Here's a Carolina Brights coupon I have that they used the quotes on

img408.jpg

so your case closed evidence that they were printed in 1910 is

A similar back design
48 subjects from the 350 only series
Coupon in quotes
Paper missing on some backs where they were glued to cartons

These things according to you are case closed evidence they were printed in 1910


but the these facts

they're printed on a different stock
the t213 type 1 subjects don't match up with any other t206 back (except Piedmont)
the ledger pages from an atc journal covering 35 tobacco brands from 1909-1912 doesn't have Coupon cigarettes in it.
you claim that they were glued to cartons and that's what the paper loss on on the back of some of them is from but the carton with paper loss on it that Jeremy has you yourself said is no earlier than 1913.

so all of these facts are just meh... a coincidence?

it really seems to me that you're grasping at straws to prove they were printed in 1910.

[DixieBaseball]

The carton I showed is 1 of 2 examples I have ever seen. We don't know what the cartons looked like from 1909-12. Perhaps they were different. I showed the carton to merely indicate that it has paper loss in upper right and the size of the paper loss is the same as the typical size of the paper loss on a Type 1 Coupon. Many Type 1 Coupons have this same paper loss. There is no doubt the Coupons were affixed to something. Too many examples to be a coincidence. Also, keep in mind Coupon changed their coloring, style on packs multiple times. (I have 3 different colors/styles from 3 different decades in my collection) So it's not out of the question, to see a variance of carton or pack. There may be different examples of cartons that didn't survive that look different from 1909-12. We know the packs look different from 1910 era to 1919-20 to 1930's...

[DixieBaseball]

New Orleans Retailer with rare image of Coupon Boxes / Cartons in the background for sale behind their Window shelves. I wonder how many Coupon Cartons came to a Coupon Box? 4,5,8, or 10 perhaps... Love the mystery behind this super rare tobacco brand.

[Pat R]

Jeremy, It doesn't matter to me if people want to group them with t206's
or if they were attached to the outside of cartons what I am interested in
is the date they were printed.

Have you or Ted looked at the ATC journal?

It covers all the cigarette brand in the t206 set and a total of 35 different brands.

Here are some of the t206 pages from that journal

ATC Carolina Brights Ledger page 2.jpg

ATC Cycle Ledger page.jpg

The narrower American Beauty's you brought up were in it

ATC American Beauty Ledger page.jpg


But the Coupon Cigarettes weren't.

[Casey2296]

Neat stuff Jerome, thanks for posting.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Pat R

As you like to say we have discussed this already Ted.

First of we know the Coupon Cigarettes existed as early as 1908



and the quotes seemed to be used on tobacco products frequently back then

Here's a Carolina Brights coupon I have that they used the quotes on

Attachment 459661 Yes, because in 1908 CAROLINA BRIGHTS was a new ATC brand whose TRADEMARK had NOT yet been Registered !

so your case closed evidence that they were printed in 1910 is

A similar back design
48 subjects from the 350 only series
Coupon in quotes
Paper missing on some backs where they were glued to cartons

These things according to you are case closed evidence they were printed in 1910


but the these facts

they're printed on a different stock
Because these cards were not intended to be inserted in Packs as "stiffiners". There are NO packs labelled "COUPON" cigarettes.


the t213 type 1 subjects don't match up with any other t206 back (except Piedmont) I do not understand what you are stating here, this does NOT make any sense !

the ledger pages from an atc journal covering 35 tobacco brands from 1909-1912 doesn't have Coupon cigarettes in it.
Keep researching, you'll find one that does include the COUPON brand !

you claim that they were glued to cartons and that's what the paper loss on on the back of some of them is from but the carton with paper loss on it that Jeremy has you yourself said is no earlier than 1913. Totally irrelevant in determining printing date !

so all of these facts are just meh... a coincidence?

it really seems to me that you're grasping at straws to prove they were printed in 1910.

I'm not grasping at any straws.

You are so OBSESSED with proving me wrong regarding the 1910 date.....that you are continually making a "fool" of your self.

Perhaps Mark Twain said it best.... "Do not argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."

This discussion is ENDED ! ! (as far as I'm concerned).

Thanks for "hi-jacking" what started out as an interesting thread.


Hey folks, let's continue posting and talking about our favorite Tobacco cards.


TED Z
.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

I'm not grasping at any straws.

You are so OBSESSED with proving me wrong regarding the 1910 date.....that you are continually making a "fool" of your self.

Perhaps Mark Twain said it best.... "Do not argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."

This discussion is ENDED ! ! (as far as I'm concerned).

Thanks for "hi-jacking" what started out as an interesting thread.


Hey folks, let's continue posting and talking about our favorite Tobacco cards.


TED Z
.

Well Ted if posting facts is "making a fool of myself" so be it at least I can say I never faked a scan to prove myself right.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=136566

[atx840]

Some of my favorites.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by atx840

Some of my favorites.

Hey Chris.....ole buddy.....did you have any luck getting the BROAD LEAF ?






I still need his CAROLINA BRIGHTS, CYCLE 46, and T213-3 (overprint) cards to complete my blue Chase run. And, if a DRUM card
of this Chase should ever surface, just imagine what the $$$$$ will be for it ?


Also, I need his T214 (VICTORY) card. In the meantime, this VICTORY reprint will fill this vacancy





TED Z

T206 Reference
.