Will you get vaccinated against COVID once it's available?

[Peter_Spaeth]

The doctors and nurses and medical workers who have dealt with this awful disease on the front lines deserve far more credit for their efforts and sacrifices than they ever will get. I am sure it bothers some of them to hear all the minimization and outright denialism and conspiracy theories coming from some quarters.

[G1911]

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[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

Anecdotal evidence is either valid, or it is not. I do not think it is worth much of anything, but anecdotal evidence that supports the pro-fear agenda should be equally inadmissible as the anti-fear agenda then.

Nobody in my peer group has had a tough time with Covid at all. 2 of have had a tough time with what appear to be from the vaccination. I don't think this means anything, as the anecdotal is inherently difficult to validate and relies on marginal sample sizes.

I'd like to see the other argument held to the same standard though, those reporting the opposite experience in their circle should also be referred to non-anecdotal evidence. That never seems to happen.

As one of my favorite sites likes to say, the plural of anecdote is not data. But there is a lot of data out there on which to draw, although one can debate its significance.

[G1911]

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[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

Now that's a good line.

Science based medicine. You might like it, they are fond of pointing out various logical fallacies in arguments made by advocates of some positions. They love deconstructing appeal to nature arguments, for example.

[Casey2296]

The problem with the US system is that we try to blend freedom of choice with absence of responsibility from the consequences of choices that go bad. This is true of pretty much every system we have, not just healthcare.

Best observation in this whole thread.

“Freedom makes a huge requirement of every human being. With freedom comes responsibility. For the person who is unwilling to grow up, the person who does not want to carry his own weight, this is a frightening prospect.”

-Eleanor Roosevelt

[irv]

https://www.facebook.com/DrScottJens...01897574991145

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The doctors and nurses and medical workers who have dealt with this awful disease on the front lines deserve far more credit for their efforts and sacrifices than they ever will get. I am sure it bothers some of them to hear all the minimization and outright denialism and conspiracy theories coming from some quarters.

I am kind split on the topic, tbh.

I know how serious the disease is and how many it has killed, but I also think the politicization of this has definitely created some misconceptions about the true reality. I read that there was a poll taken where 70% of those self identifying as Democrats stated there was greater than a 50% chance of being admitted with Covid. The Republican number was closer to 50% of people thought the risk was over 50%. We know the true number is 1-5%.

On the other side, we have lots of people who think that the hospitals have been exaggerating the death numbers by manipulating death certificates. This is a significant oversimplification as most people do not understand how doctors(not hospitals I might add) complete official Death Certificates. For example, Let's say someone has Heart Failure that is stable, and then gets COVID. The COVID causes the person's overall health to be compromised and the Heart Failure worsens. Now, if that person dies from the Heart Failure, the correct way to complete the Death Cert is put Heart Failure as the first cause of death, but also to add COVID as part of the cause as well.The rationale is that if the person did not get COVID, their Heart Failure may not have worsened and caused the death at that time.

It's understanding examples like these that show how the news media and politicians, on both sides, have really failed the American people in explaining the full story.

In a way, this illness has been both minimized and overblown at the same time. Only in America, could we pull of such an amazing feat!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

I am kind split on the topic, tbh.

I know how serious the disease is and how many it has killed, but I also think the politicization of this has definitely created some misconceptions about the true reality. I read that there was a poll taken where 70% of those self identifying as Democrats stated there was greater than a 50% chance of being admitted with Covid. The Republican number was closer to 50% of people thought the risk was over 50%. We know the true number is 1-5%.

On the other side, we have lots of people who think that the hospitals have been exaggerating the death numbers by manipulating death certificates. This is a significant oversimplification as most people do not understand how doctors(not hospitals I might add) complete official Death Certificates. For example, Let's say someone has Heart Failure that is stable, and then gets COVID. The COVID causes the person's overall health to be compromised and the Heart Failure worsens. Now, if that person dies from the Heart Failure, the correct way to complete the Death Cert is put Heart Failure as the first cause of death, but also to add COVID as part of the cause as well.The rationale is that if the person did not get COVID, their Heart Failure may not have worsened and caused the death at that time.

It's understanding examples like these that show how the news media and politicians, on both sides, have really failed the American people in explaining the full story.

In a way, this illness has been both minimized and overblown at the same time. Only in America, could we pull of such an amazing feat!

Exactly. It's not binary. The virus can certainly be the straw, or brick, that breaks the camel's back, even if the camel had a weak back to begin with. That does nothing in my mind to minimize the role of the virus in that death.

And agree about the politicization, on both sides.