T206 Wagner - what grade would you receive?

[glynparson]

Old grade. Like it or not standards have changed. Had you sent it in when this one was you’d have gotten a 2 now you’d most likely get a one. Every single company that has been around for any amount of time in the grading business has tightened their standards. You can like it or hate it but it is what it is.

[philliesfan]

If it was mine, I would get "Not Authentic".
If it was someone else's, they would get at least a 1.
Bob

[Rhotchkiss]

As we learned from the “A” that recently sold in Heritage for $2.5mm, grade is not so relevant to value with this card.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

As we learned from the “A” that recently sold in Heritage for $2.5mm, grade is not so relevant to value with this card.

In a rising market timing is everything. That card sold at the peak of the hype. There was new money being thrown around. Now that the new money has been burned, prices are settling down. PSA 10 Jordan RC sold for 738k with several 600k+ sales. Now sales are in the 300k range with a 288k sale.

If that Wagner sold today, it would sell for much less. That card had at least 4 places of paper loss on the face of the card. A much nicer one sold for less a two months later.

[Rhotchkiss]

We will never know, but I think if that A sold today it would still fetch close to $2mm with the provenance. And the ugly 2 that is topic of this thread just shattered records at $3.6mm. While the market is no doubt cooling, I think the t206 wagner is Teflon and mostly unaffected

[rand1com]

Agreed. As long as wealthy collectors need the Wagner to complete the set or investors with unlimited money want to have one, record prices will be recorded. This is an ugly 2. I agree it gets a 1 in today's grading world but if it comes back on the market two years down the road it sells for more than it did this time IMO.

[G1911]

Standards have changed over time, but I don't recall a time when a card with this much damage would normally, and be expected, to slab as a 2.

Not that it matters much, how picky can one be about a Wagner?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

We will never know, but I think if that A sold today it would still fetch close to $2mm with the provenance. And the ugly 2 that is topic of this thread just shattered records at $3.6mm. While the market is no doubt cooling, I think the t206 wagner is Teflon and mostly unaffected

I agree that it could do 2 million, but that is a 500k loss. That ugly 2 bringing 3.6 million just shows how important the 2 is rather than a 1 or 1.5. Rare cards like a Wagner aren't going to be hurt as badly by a cooling market, but new money seeing 6 figure losses is going to cause a pull back across the board. The Jordan RC is just the extreme example.

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

We will never know, but I think if that A sold today it would still fetch close to $2mm with the provenance. And the ugly 2 that is topic of this thread just shattered records at $3.6mm. While the market is no doubt cooling, I think the t206 wagner is Teflon and mostly unaffected

+1 - spot on accurate Ryan! Premium rarity always seems to rise above standard market conditions. And just for the record, while pricing has somewhat cooled down a bit, it still remains way above its previous levels. There will be additional pricing spikes in the near future - especially for high-end vintage.

[mq711]

PSA would give me the old “questionable authentic,” without providing any reason why. Facebook responses would say ”fake,” because too well centered, edges too white and corners evenly damaged. Would have to send it to an AH where it would come back a 1.5.

[sportscardpete]

Originally Posted by rats60

In a rising market timing is everything. That card sold at the peak of the hype. There was new money being thrown around. Now that the new money has been burned, prices are settling down. PSA 10 Jordan RC sold for 738k with several 600k+ sales. Now sales are in the 300k range with a 288k sale.

If that Wagner sold today, it would sell for much less. That card had at least 4 places of paper loss on the face of the card. A much nicer one sold for less a two months later.

I don't know if the Wagner is subject to the same volatility as the Jordan.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by sportscardpete

I don't know if the Wagner is subject to the same volatility as the Jordan.

+1

[perezfan]

They are grading much tougher these days for the typical collector. But if submitted by the right people (Memory Lane, SCP, Mile High, etc.), I bet they'd still get the "2".

I wonder what grade they'd give Kendrick's sheet-cut Wagner, if it was re-submitted under their wonderful "guarantee"? Would they be willing to admit to the entire world what everyone else already knows?