Will you get vaccinated against COVID once it's available?

irv · #1 06-02-2021, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't care about the left wing noise any more than the right wing noise. It's all BS if you ask me. I care about the studies. Read the studies. Again, many drugs, treatments, etc. appear at first blush to work, but don't hold up to controlled trials. As best I can tell, the controlled trials do not support the safety or efficacy of this drug for this disease. In fact some suggested it made things worse.

And you keep ducking the question Dale. Who is "they"? Don't tee up another straw man, tell me who "they" is.

You're being obtuse and becoming insufferable, Peter. If I didn't know any better, I'd think you're just looking forward to using the words conspiracy theorist and strawman any chance you get.

Peter_Spaeth · #2 06-02-2021, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irv

You're being obtuse and becoming insufferable, Peter. If I didn't know any better, I'd think you're just looking forward to using the words conspiracy theorist and strawman any chance you get.

You can't answer the question can you? And how many of the studies have you read? I am SURE you know better than the scientists who conducted them. Oh wait, "they" must have paid off those scientists.

Peter_Spaeth · #3 06-02-2021, 08:53 PM

This is what I was looking for, the 2021 meta analysis of the trials.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7885725/

Despite all the controversy about HCQ and CQ use for COVID-19 treatment, this meta-analysis did not show any better outcomes in patients using HCQ or CQ when compared to the control group. The results showed no statistical significance in the treatment with HCQ or CQ in achieving virological cure and faster clinical recovery.

Conclusion.

These results suggest that the use of HCQ or CQ is not associated with decreased viral load, faster clinical recovery, improved survival, decreased need for mechanical ventilation, and decreased hospitalization time for patients with COVID-19. However, it suggests that the use of HCQ or CQ can be associated with an increased risk of adverse effects.

Obtuse indeed.

Peter_Spaeth · #4 06-02-2021, 09:01 PM

Another meta analysis.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-22446-z

We found that treatment with hydroxychloroquine is associated with increased mortality in COVID-19 patients, and there is no benefit of chloroquine.

Casey2296 · #5 06-02-2021, 10:12 PM

We Are They

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=goVL5d...ature=youtu.be

Peter_Spaeth · #6 06-02-2021, 10:27 PM

Yes, indeed.

What are conspiracy theories? Why do they flourish?

1. What are they?
The belief that certain events or situations are secretly manipulated behind the scenes by powerful forces with negative intent.

2. Conspiracy theories have these 6 things in common
1. An alleged, secret plot.

2. A group of conspirators.

3. �Evidence� that seems to support the conspiracy theory.

4. They falsely suggest that nothing happens by accident and that there are no coincidences; nothing is as it appears and everything is connected.

5. They divide the world into good or bad.

6. They scapegoat people and groups.

3. Why do they flourish?
They often appear as a logical explanation of events or situations which are difficult to understand and bring a false sense of control and agency. This need for clarity is heightened in times of uncertainty like the COVID-19 pandemic.

4. How do they take root?
Conspiracy theories often start as a suspicion. They ask who is benefiting from the event or situation and thus identify the conspirators. Any �evidence� is then forced to fit the theory.

Once they have taken root, conspiracy theories can grow quickly. They are hard to refute because any person who tries is seen as being part of the conspiracy.

5. People spread conspiracy theories for different reasons:
Most believe they are true. Others deliberately want to provoke, manipulate or target people for political or financial reasons. Beware: They can come from many sources e.g. internet, friends, relatives.

Casey2296 · #7 06-02-2021, 10:35 PM

Click on the link Peter, you'll have a good laugh.

frankbmd · #8 06-02-2021, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casey2296

We Are They

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=goVL5d...ature=youtu.be

Saying they suggests the they agree with each other, but in no way precludes another they who disagree with the first they.

Have they (either one) ever been wrong? Both theys would maintain their assertion and suggest that only the other theys are incorrect.

In fact a third group, also a they, could easily contend that both the first two theys are incorrect.

Knowing the size of a they would help. If your they consists of only 4 people, their opinion may be regarded as an anecdote. If your they has a population (better known as “pop” in the hobby,) of 100, it could be several things, a grass roots movement, a conspiracy theory, or even a prescient group of educated individuals who interpret the given data correctly. The latter they however are as equally likely to be persecuted as the conspiracy theorists or a grass roots movement.

If you add sheeple to any they, they do not improve the odds of the given they’s validity. They merely increase the “pop” of their group. Sheeple, however, are not homogenous, nor are they immutable. Politics, simplistically, is a contest of mutating sheeple to increase their “pop”. Sheeple, who think they are making wise decisions by joining a ideological they, are generally not as wise as they think they are. In fact, I would maintain that most sheeple are inclined to agree with sheeple who share some unrelated characteristic with which they identify such as gender, skin color, country of origin, R or D, or ancestry.

A they will often associate another unrelated dispised entity with a belief with which they disagree. The two may be totally unrelated, but guilt by false association can be powerful propaganda.

The bifurcation of the news is a deterrent to common ground. Both theys are competing for sheeple that don’t even know what they are talking about. Ultimately many sheeple throwup their hands in dispair.

A they, any they, can plead for unity as a popular mantra, but since both theys are working from a different set of facts, unity becomes a pipe dream. Both sides, in the name of unity, eschew the other sides “fake news” (if you will) and define unity as “my way or the highway”.

If you are wearing a mask, take it off and reread the post.

If you aren’t wearing a mask, try reading this with a mask on.

If it sounds like meaningless gibberish both ways, I think I have made my point.

Peter_Spaeth · #9 06-03-2021, 06:23 AM

I am we and you are we and they are we and we are all together.

irv · #10 06-03-2021, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You can't answer the question can you? And how many of the studies have you read? I am SURE you know better than the scientists who conducted them. Oh wait, "they" must have paid off those scientists.

I already did Peter, but I can't see for you if you're too blind to see for yourself.

Great links, again. Those sure prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that everything you said is 100% factual and true.
Have anymore of these links that are easily debunked?

"Is the NCBI reliable?
That question cannot be answered in general. The databases at the NCBI/DDBJ/EMBL will definitely contain errors as the data comes from various sources and most of the databases are only marginally curated. But that holds true for all big databases without manual curation (and even those are not flawless).

"Wolfgang Rumpf
Nationwide Children's Hospital
Christian is correct. The databases are in large part uncurated - while some metadata will be screened and corrected (e.g. keywords etc.), the sequences itself are definitely not - validation would require far too much time/effort/expenditure. Thus the databases rely on the submitter's information - and subsequent experimental validation if and when it happens"

Wasn't it also you that said these vaccines weren't being pushed on anyone?
Sure hope you haven't got your vaccine yet? I'd hate to see you miss out on any of these things being offered.

"�Get a shot and have a beer�: Biden touts free brew, pro sports tickets and child care"

https://missouriindependent.com/2021...oost-vaccines/

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ombat-n1268048
https://www.latimes.com/california/s...id-19-vaccines

packs · #11 06-03-2021, 08:47 AM

Moderna just applied for FDA approval. If it is fully approved by the FDA are you still worried about it?

Peter_Spaeth · #12 06-03-2021, 09:20 AM

I'm not at all a fan of Biden's approach, by the way. I find it offensive and wrong.

And Dale, I missed it. Do me a favor and identify for me all the actors who have conspired to deny sick people effective treatment.

vintagetoppsguy · #13 06-03-2021, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

Moderna just applied for FDA approval. If it is fully approved by the FDA are you still worried about it?

The United States Public Health Service (PHS) and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) approved the Tuskegee Experiments. So what does an approval have to do with anything?

packs · #14 06-03-2021, 12:27 PM

Well earlier people had said the reason they are wary of the vaccine was because it was authorized but not approved. Has that changed now?

Also, I don't really understand the Tuskegee reference. All medications face FDA approval so if you discount their approval but also won't take medications that are not FDA approved, what are you left with?

vintagetoppsguy · #15 06-03-2021, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

Also, I don't really understand the Tuskegee reference.

Then let me explain it to you. If the government (CDC) would knowingly inject unsuspecting citizens with Syphilis, why wouldn't they do the same (with Syphilis or anything else) today? What has changed?

Peter_Spaeth · #16 06-03-2021, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

The United States Public Health Service (PHS) and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) approved the Tuskegee Experiments. So what does an approval have to do with anything?

I thought from YOUR prior posts your objection was that the vaccines weren't approved yet. You kept banging that point home.

vintagetoppsguy · #17 06-03-2021, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I thought from YOUR prior posts your objection was that the vaccines weren't approved yet. You kept banging that point home.

Can you point me to the post? I may have pointed out that the vaccines weren't FDA approved, but I thought I've made it clear that my reason for not getting the vaccine is there is not enough testing and the long term side effects aren't fully known.

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