Mia Hamm RC in Goldin Auctions

[Ray Van]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

Yeah, that's how popular THE SPORT is.... but the collecting of cards traditionally for these sports is non-existent.

All people can say is how popular these sports are, which has always been the case to different people in different parts of the world... but the SPORT card market in any non North American locale has never been popular until now.

Also as mentioned, it's true the English were feverish card producers and collectors, but primarily not of SPORTS cards.... that has never been the case.

Sorry but I do feel the need to respond to this completely ignorant comment. As mentioned by other posters, the English (and German, Italian, Spanish, Brazilian, Argentinian, Australian, etc.) were collectors of sports cards. Maybe just not the sports you follow, but Soccer, Cricket, Golf, Aussie Rules Football, etc, have been collected almost as long as baseball cards by international collectors. It's true these had not been commodified as much as North American "Big 4" sports cards, but they have always been there and been collected. As a soccer card and memorabilia collector of 30+ years I can attest to the small group of collectors that has now exploded over the past few years. Are there speculators just like in any sport? Of course, and maybe even more than most other sports. Soccer and Basketball have seen the fastest growth in recent years, and the fact that they are probably the two most popular global team sports has been a significant contributing factor.

Now, would I pay $34K for the Mia Hamm SI card? No, but I don't have the monetary means nor the interest in that specific card. Just like any auction, all it takes is two interested parties and the bidding goes from there. It's all about supply and demand, so you could insert [Wagner, Mantle, Gretzky, Jordan, Trout, Brady, Pokemon] and build the same argument. $5.2MM for 1952 Mantle or $3.25MM for T206 Wagner is simply the same economic and emotional situation playing out, albeit at a completely different price level.

True, the value of soccer and some of these other sports cards are peanuts compared to "North American cards", but I can assure you they are catching up quickly. Bloomer, Meredith, Dean, Matthews, Puskas, Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, Zidane, Messi, Ronaldo ... are setting new records every month. The soccer card market is maybe 20 years behind Baseball, but it is there and growing. Trust me, there are lots of people who collect these and lots of people who care about them.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by Ray Van

Sorry but I do feel the need to respond to this completely ignorant comment. As mentioned by other posters, the English (and German, Italian, Spanish, Brazilian, Argentinian, Australian, etc.) were collectors of sports cards. Maybe just not the sports you follow, but Soccer, Cricket, Golf, Aussie Rules Football, etc, have been collected almost as long as baseball cards by international collectors. It's true these had not been commodified as much as North American "Big 4" sports cards, but they have always been there and been collected. As a soccer card and memorabilia collector of 30+ years I can attest to the small group of collectors that has now exploded over the past few years. Are there speculators just like in any sport? Of course, and maybe even more than most other sports. Soccer and Basketball have seen the fastest growth in recent years, and the fact that they are probably the two most popular global team sports has been a significant contributing factor.

Now, would I pay $34K for the Mia Hamm SI card? No, but I don't have the monetary means nor the interest in that specific card. Just like any auction, all it takes is two interested parties and the bidding goes from there. It's all about supply and demand, so you could insert [Wagner, Mantle, Gretzky, Jordan, Trout, Brady, Pokemon] and build the same argument. $5.2MM for 1952 Mantle or $3.25MM for T206 Wagner is simply the same economic and emotional situation playing out, albeit at a completely different price level.

True, the value of soccer and some of these other sports cards are peanuts compared to "North American cards", but I can assure you they are catching up quickly. Bloomer, Meredith, Dean, Matthews, Puskas, Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, Zidane, Messi, Ronaldo ... are setting new records every month. The soccer card market is maybe 20 years behind Baseball, but it is there and growing. Trust me, there are lots of people who collect these and lots of people who care about them.

"I can attest to the SMALL group of collectors" ....says it all.

That's all I said... some of you want to live in a fantasy world where there are supposedly tons of card collectors in countries like England to rationalize the ridiculous and sudden climb in card values... but if that were true, values of English cards would have LONG been increasing... but they have not. You said it yourself, the soccer card market is 20 years behind baseball... so if there are truly numerous collectors of these cards, there should have been a constant - not meteoric - increase throughout that time... but that has never happened. WHY?

[Ray Van]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

"I can attest to the SMALL group of collectors" ....says it all.

That's all I said... some of you want to live in a fantasy world where there are supposedly tons of card collectors in countries like England to rationalize the ridiculous and sudden climb in card values... but if that were true, values of English cards would have LONG been increasing... but they have not. You said it yourself, the soccer card market is 20 years behind baseball... so if there are truly numerous collectors of these cards, there should have been a constant - not meteoric - increase throughout that time... but that has never happened. WHY?

I might be oversimplifying things, but I have observed soccer card collectors to traditionally be set collectors and not focused on individual players - that is, up until the past couple of years when things changed. That could fit both sides of the argument - lots of collectors and suppressed values. As an example, 1906 Ogden's Football Club Colours: sellers used to offer each team card for the same price. But now that collectors have identified Steve Bloomer as the player pictured on the Derby County card, that one card is 100x or more valuable than a common card from the set. You could argue that this is driven by the relatively recent valuation-separation between commons and stars by collectors of this sport.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Ray Van

I might be oversimplifying things, but I have observed soccer card collectors to traditionally be set collectors and not focused on individual players - that is, up until the past couple of years when things changed. That could fit both sides of the argument - lots of collectors and suppressed values. As an example, 1906 Ogden's Football Club Colours: sellers used to offer each team card for the same price. But now that collectors have identified Steve Bloomer as the player pictured on the Derby County card, that one card is 100x or more valuable than a common card from the set. You could argue that this is driven by the relatively recent valuation-separation between commons and stars by collectors of this sport.

This is most definitely the case. Back in the mid to later 90's I was mail ordering from The London Cigarette Card Company, singles of Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Jesse Owens, Joe Louis, and even occasionally Bobby Jones (who even back then was selling for a bit of a premium) and others, for the same price as any other common in the sets.

Of course, that eventually dried out once the internet made more people (especially in the U.S.), aware of these issues.

....and BTW The London Cigarette Card Company, along with Murray's Cards, were bigger then any Sports or Trading Card dealer in the U.S.., until well into the 80's, including the Larry Fritch's and Renata Galasso's.