Stunning quote on altered cards

Peter_Spaeth · #1 07-06-2021, 11:08 PM

SMH that this thread got essentially no traction. I guess we're so numb at this point...

CobbSpikedMe · #2 07-06-2021, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

SMH that this thread got essentially no traction. I guess we're so numb at this point...

I was thinking the same thing today. I guess it's just something we all knew already and it's not as shocking as it should be at this point.

.

DeanH3 · #3 07-07-2021, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

SMH that this thread got essentially no traction. I guess we're so numb at this point...

Unfortunately I think this is too accurate.

fatties?

Johnny630 · #4 07-07-2021, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

SMH that this thread got essentially no traction. I guess we're so numb at this point...

It’s sad people don’t care they just show their cards off instead lol again it really is all about they money. I guess to many big important people own cards for them to have a massive scandal about altered cards, investor groups manipulating sales, and or a whistleblower coming out from the inside exposing would cause a major hit to the value of the industry.
Money talks.

Card doctors, shillers, and flat out crooks in this industry are like athletes foot, they’re a fungus that keeps coming back and never fully goes away.

skelly423 · #5 07-07-2021, 06:55 AM

I take a different view to the quote. It's one man's opinion, but he doesn't speak for the hobby at large, and I don't think he's saying anything that isn't common knowledge. It has been well known that grading companies don't have a great track record with altered cards, including the most famous card in the entire hobby, the Gretzky/McNall Wagner.

I don't have to accept altered cards in my collection (and won't), and I have probably passed on legitimate examples in my efforts to avoid doctored cards. To me the holder and assigned grade are a helpful guide, but I revert back to the same old maxim; buy the card, not the holder. Regardless of what the slab says, if I'm not sure the card is original and unaltered, I don't buy.

tiger8mush · #6 07-07-2021, 07:04 AM

Trimming is likely the most common alteration for altered cards, but that generally isn't what I fear ... its the touch-up recoloring and rebuilding corners etc that are difficult to catch in a scan (let alone in person).

Johnny630 · #7 07-07-2021, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

Trimming is likely the most common alteration for altered cards, but that generally isn't what I fear ... its the touch-up recoloring and rebuilding corners etc that are difficult to catch in a scan (let alone in person).

I would say 40% or more of Pre WW Cards in PSA holders are trimmed or re colored….I’m not talking soak out of a book or corner flipped I’m taking cut and colored.

fkm_bky · #8 07-07-2021, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny630

I would say 40% or more of Pre WW Cards in PSA holders are trimmed or re colored�.I�m not talking soak out of a book or corner flipped I�m taking cut and colored.

When we�re talking about these percentages of altered cards and such, at what grade level is it really the most prevalent? I�m assuming (going by PSA grading scale) from 3 or 4 on up? My collection right now is lower grade, but my plan is to upgrade as much as I can over time. Personally, I�ll take a nice looking unaltered 2 over the risk of a potentially altered 4 or 5.

Bill

Johnny630 · #9 07-07-2021, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fkm_bky

When we�re talking about these percentages of altered cards and such, at what grade level is it really the most prevalent? I�m assuming (going by PSA grading scale) from 3 or 4 on up? My collection right now is lower grade, but my plan is to upgrade as much as I can over time. Personally, I�ll take a nice looking unaltered 2 over the risk of a potentially altered 4 or 5.

Bill

All Grades

Exhibitman · #10 07-07-2021, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny630

I would say 40% or more of Pre WW Cards in PSA holders are trimmed or re colored�.I�m not talking soak out of a book or corner flipped I�m taking cut and colored.

I disagree. The sheer numbers of cards would tend to suggest that is an overstatement. I would agree that a large % of the allegedly high grade prewar cards have been altered. Those of us who've been around collecting for 40+ years know what was out there on average in the cheap days and as compared to what is out there now, the ratio of high grade to all grades has increased over time. I do not think that is the result of 'finds' (though there have been some, e.g., the Black Swamp), but for sets like T206 and 1933 Goudey, no, sorry, those cards have been worked.

perezfan · #11 07-07-2021, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

SMH that this thread got essentially no traction. I guess we're so numb at this point...

There's really no new news here, considering the source of this quote. I've commented on this fiasco repeatedly since the "scandal" broke. Sadly, it seems to make no difference.

I completely agree with the "lack of traction" aspect, but am afraid that the silence exhibited by most people on this forum is the result of them not wanting to admit to owning/selling altered cards.

Dealers, Flippers and grade-bumpers all adore PSA and will continue to defend them (or simply say nothing), despite the mountain of evidence that continues to accumulate. Most of these are obvious alteration jobs that any novice would have caught. There are now thousands of examples in numbered slabs, including those that PSA has reviewed and confirmed the grade... No conflict of interest there

I just pray that someday we discover the truth... whether it is PSA's ineptitude or that they are compliant in this disgrace with their favored submitters. Hopefully the FBI is still building its case, and karma will ultimately prevail. Then we will really have something to talk about.

Peter_Spaeth · #12 07-07-2021, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

There's really no new news here, considering the source of this quote. I've commented on this fiasco repeatedly since the "scandal" broke. Sadly, it seems to make no difference.

I completely agree with the "lack of traction" aspect, but am afraid that the silence exhibited by most people on this forum is the result of them not wanting to admit to owning/selling altered cards.

Dealers, Flippers and grade-bumpers all adore PSA and will continue to defend them (or simply say nothing), despite the mountain of evidence that continues to accumulate. Most of these are obvious alteration jobs that any novice would have caught. There are now thousands of examples in numbered slabs, including those that PSA has reviewed and confirmed the grade... No conflict of interest there

I just pray that someday we discover the truth... whether it is PSA's ineptitude or that they are compliant in this disgrace with their favored submitters. Hopefully the FBI is still building its case, and karma will ultimately prevail. Then we will really have something to talk about.

My best guess at this point is that PSA and BGS over time made a deal with the devil, that is they tried to find a space that was manageable between still performing some screening function for hatchet jobs on the one hand and on the other hand not alienating completely the card doctors who were their biggest customers and who, after all, provided many of the cards most visible in the marketplace that pumped up the brands and the hobby. If it weren't for BODA I think that middle ground would have been much less visible to the average collector. SGC, different analysis, I'll keep that one to myself.

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