Stunning quote on altered cards

Peter_Spaeth · #1 07-07-2021, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

I agree it's an alteration. It's also a kind of damage.

I suppose, but John and I are of a generation of collectors to whom alteration is horrifying so it's of a different quality.

G1911 · #2 07-07-2021, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I suppose, but John and I are of a generation of collectors to whom alteration is horrifying so it's of a different quality.

I didn't know younger generations were more okay with it. I referred to it as both alteration and damage in #44, I'm surprised if that's a controversial claim.

Peter_Spaeth · #3 07-07-2021, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

I didn't know younger generations were more okay with it. I referred to it as both alteration and damage in #44, I'm surprised if that's a controversial claim.

"just another type of damage"
implying it's no different in kind from a crease etc.

G1911 · #4 07-07-2021, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

"just another type of damage"
implying it's no different in kind from a crease etc.

I would refer too the first few sentences that specifically refer to it as altering.

Altering IS just another type of damage, alterations are a type of damage. They are a group of damage done to increase a cards sell value or appearance. That is a group, a type of damage. Another type, another group, of damage, made its own type because of the fact it is altering, not normal wear and tear but done for a specific purpose intentionally. It does not change my enjoyment of a card, so while it�s own type, it�s just another type..

I don�t know why this wants to be made a thing, but alright.

Peter_Spaeth · #5 07-07-2021, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

I would refer too the first few sentences that specifically refer to it as altering.

Altering IS just another type of damage, alterations are a type of damage. They are a group of damage done to increase a cards sell value or appearance. That is a group, a type of damage. Another type, another group, of damage, made its own type because of the fact it is altering, not normal wear and tear but done for a specific purpose intentionally. It does not change my enjoyment of a card, so while it�s own type, it�s just another type..

I don�t know why this wants to be made a thing, but alright.

You make my point. For YOU, it doesn't change your enjoyment of a card. For those of us who grew up in the hobby with a certain mentality, we could not enjoy an altered card because it's heresy. That's the difference.

Seven · #6 07-07-2021, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You make my point. For YOU, it doesn't change your enjoyment of a card. For those of us who grew up in the hobby with a certain mentality, we could not enjoy an altered card because it's heresy. That's the difference.

I've run across the unfortunate circumstance where the price boom, has made it affording the cards I want, borderline impossible, as a younger collector, the two altered cards I have in my collection, act as place holders until the day comes when I can afford respectable looking copies, in decent mid level grades. While we are seeing some regression in vintage, the main guy I collect, Mickey Mantle, does not go down in price. Which means, with certain cards, "altered" grades are one of my only option at the moment.

All that being said, personally, while I don't love the idea of owning an altered card, it's something that I've come to terms with, for now. It's also the reason why when I mainly shop around for a new card for my collection, I try to buy raw, from a long time collector or dealer, that knows the origin of the card. As it's one of the only ways I can ensure what I'm buying, hasn't been messed with.

Peter_Spaeth · #7 07-07-2021, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven

I've run across the unfortunate circumstance where the price boom, has made it affording the cards I want, borderline impossible, as a younger collector, the two altered cards I have in my collection, act as place holders until the day comes when I can afford respectable looking copies, in decent mid level grades. While we are seeing some regression in vintage, the main guy I collect, Mickey Mantle, does not go down in price. Which means, with certain cards, "altered" grades are one of my only option at the moment.

All that being said, personally, while I don't love the idea of owning an altered card, it's something that I've come to terms with, for now. It's also the reason why when I mainly shop around for a new card for my collection, I try to buy raw, from a long time collector or dealer, that knows the origin of the card. As it's one of the only ways I can ensure what I'm buying, hasn't been messed with.

Sounds sensible.

perezfan · #8 07-07-2021, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven

I've run across the unfortunate circumstance where the price boom, has made it affording the cards I want, borderline impossible, as a younger collector, the two altered cards I have in my collection, act as place holders until the day comes when I can afford respectable looking copies, in decent mid level grades. While we are seeing some regression in vintage, the main guy I collect, Mickey Mantle, does not go down in price. Which means, with certain cards, "altered" grades are one of my only option at the moment.

All that being said, personally, while I don't love the idea of owning an altered card, it's something that I've come to terms with, for now. It's also the reason why when I mainly shop around for a new card for my collection, I try to buy raw, from a long time collector or dealer, that knows the origin of the card. As it's one of the only ways I can ensure what I'm buying, hasn't been messed with.

There's absolutely no shame in owning an altered card, whether it's a placeholder or one you plan to take to the grave. Many/most of us probably have a few of them in our collections whether we know it or not.

But when the altered card is passed off as original and is assigned a numerical grade by a TPG, then we have a problem. The entire premise of third party grading is rendered pointless and meaningless when trimmed/recolored/bleached cards are continually realizing a lot more money than lower-graded original examples.

And whether it's just mistaken identification by the TPG or outright fraud, when people are profiting it only exacerbates the problem.

G1911 · #9 07-07-2021, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You make my point. For YOU, it doesn't change your enjoyment of a card. For those of us who grew up in the hobby with a certain mentality, we could not enjoy an altered card because it's heresy. That's the difference.

So what I said was just fine and needed no correction, it just ruins the fun for you and it doesn�t for me in my heretical ways. That�s fine.

tkd · #10 07-07-2021, 11:59 PM

This may be best for another thread but has anyone come across any pre war reprints/fakes that are getting hard to tell the difference between an original?

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