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  #1  
Old 07-21-2021, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Tabe View Post
Is that really in doubt? Ruth dwarfs Honus in nearly every offensive stat. 183 WAR vs 130. Wagner's best season for WAR would be Ruth's 7th best. Ruth's career OPS+ is higher than Wagner's single season best.

Wagner was an incredible player but, yes, the gap really was that big.
Bill James ranks Honus Wagner as the #2 player of all time and his 1908 season as the greatest ever. Hall of Fame voters gave Wagner the same number of votes as Ruth. It may be your opinion that the gap is big, but I and many others strongly disagree.
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Old 07-21-2021, 03:05 AM
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Bill James ranks Honus Wagner as the #2 player of all time and his 1908 season as the greatest ever. Hall of Fame voters gave Wagner the same number of votes as Ruth. It may be your opinion that the gap is big, but I and many others strongly disagree.
The numbers don't lie. And James is wrong about Wagner's 1908.
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Old 07-21-2021, 03:49 AM
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The numbers don't lie. And James is wrong about Wagner's 1908.
Live ball vs deadball
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Old 07-21-2021, 06:07 AM
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Not only live ball vs dead ball, but I don't understand how all the complicated modern metrics could even be applied so far back.

How could you really judge Wagner's defensive WAR from back in 1899 in the same manner as today? I'm guessing that more chances is assumed to mean a better range, but is it really that simple?
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Old 07-21-2021, 09:51 AM
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That Ruth was better than Wagner, or by how much, isn't the issue. This is the great American baseball card, a cultural icon, in a way the Ruth is not.
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Old 07-21-2021, 01:27 PM
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Let's just put it this way: The T206 Wagner is to baseball cards what Ruth is to ballplayers.
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Old 07-21-2021, 01:37 PM
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Let's just put it this way: The T206 Wagner is to baseball cards what Ruth is to ballplayers.
Very well put.
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