The Cleveland Guardians? Yes, It's Official

vintagetoppsguy · #1 07-24-2021, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark17

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Bedford_Forrest

Forrest joined the Ku Klux Klan in 1867 (two years after its founding) and was elected its first Grand Wizard. The group was a loose collection of local factions throughout the former Confederacy that used violence and the threat of violence to maintain white control over the newly enfranchised former slaves. The Klan, with Forrest at the lead, suppressed voting rights of blacks in the South through violence and intimidation during the elections of 1868.

In 1869, Forrest expressed disillusionment with the lack of discipline in the white supremacist terrorist group across the South and issued a letter ordering the dissolution of the Ku Klux Klan as well as the destruction of its costumes; he then withdrew from the organization. In the last years of his life, Forrest insisted he had never been a member and made a public speech in favor of racial harmony.

Much like Bob Byrd, Forrest denounced racism later in life.

+1

But as I said earlier, you can't reason with stupidly. But I guess the jackass hasn't read your post yet, otherwise he would call it "disingenuous BS" as he did mine.

bigtrain · #2 07-25-2021, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

+1

But as I said earlier, you can't reason with stupidly. But I guess the jackass hasn't read your post yet, otherwise he would call it "disingenuous BS" as he did mine.

Bob Byrd never massacred Black Union Soldiers as they were trying to surrender. They are not equivalent. You are a moron.

vintagetoppsguy · #3 07-25-2021, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtrain

Bob Byrd never massacred Black Union Soldiers as they were trying to surrender. They are not equivalent. You are a moron.

And you are not God. You don't get to decide which sins are forgiven and which are not, you ignorant jackass.

bigtrain · #4 07-25-2021, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

And you are not God. You don't get to decide which sins are forgiven and which are not, you ignorant jackass.

One guy is a murderer, one is not. What is so difficult to understand about that? Name calling that is devoid of logic does not win arguments

Peter_Spaeth · #5 07-25-2021, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtrain

One guy is a murderer, one is not. What is so difficult to understand about that? Name calling that is devoid of logic does not win arguments

What are the odds a thread about the new Cleveland nickname ends up as a discussion of Senator Robert Byrd and General Nathan Bedford Forrest (who, by the way, speaking strictly of him as a general, apparently was studied by the Germans in WWII)? Pretty long odds ex ante I would think.

Slightly more on topic, do all the forts in the South named after Confederate generals need to be renamed?

Tabe · #6 07-25-2021, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Slightly more on topic, do all the forts in the South named after Confederate generals need to be renamed?

Yes. They should never have been named after traitors in the first place.

Peter_Spaeth · #7 07-25-2021, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tabe

Yes. They should never have been named after traitors in the first place.

From the perspective of Great Britain, the Founding Fathers were traitors.

BCauley · #8 07-25-2021, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Slightly more on topic, do all the forts in the South named after Confederate generals need to be renamed?

May as well be. Honestly, I never even thought this was a controversy until people from both sides started arguing about it.

I�d actually be surprised if any every day person could even name three of the bases in question. People in the military (then and now) would know the names but likely no idea who the people even are.

Looking into it a bit, once these guys became Generals they weren�t even very good at the job. Never mind who they fought for, they just weren�t good and there are far better and more successful Generals out there that they could be named for.

If they do end up changing names, I suggest Audie Murphy (not a General) for one. If they change the name of Ft Bragg, I suggest MG Scoltes, the first CDR of JSOC, as Ft Bragg is the home of special operations forces.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Peter_Spaeth · #9 07-25-2021, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCauley

May as well be. Honestly, I never even thought this was a controversy until people from both sides started arguing about it.

I’d actually be surprised if any every day person could even name three of the bases in question. People in the military (then and now) would know the names but likely no idea who the people even are.

Looking into it a bit, once these guys became Generals they weren’t even very good at the job. Never mind who they fought for, they just weren’t good and there are far better and more successful Generals out there that they could be named for.

If they do end up changing names, I suggest Audie Murphy (not a General) for one. If they change the name of Ft Bragg, I suggest MG Scoltes, the first CDR of JSOC, as Ft Bragg is the home of special operations forces.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can we make those changes without an inquisition into THOSE people's lives? What if they made a racist remark somewhere along the way? Or was an abusive husband or father, that behavior is as bad as racism no?

Mark17 · #10 07-25-2021, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtrain

One guy is a murderer, one is not. What is so difficult to understand about that? Name calling that is devoid of logic does not win arguments

The only thing that will stop the cancel culture from continuing to mow down traditions in this country will be their hypocrisy, when they give certain people who have done reprehensible things a pass because of political affiliations. Although in the case of Forrest and Byrd, both were of the same party.

Peter_Spaeth · #11 07-25-2021, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark17

The only thing that will stop the cancel culture from continuing to mow down traditions in this country will be their hypocrisy, when they give certain people who have done reprehensible things a pass because of political affiliations. Although in the case of Forrest and Byrd, both were of the same party.

I remember first year of law school when minority students were objecting to the tradition of calling on and grilling students as racist and calling for a "no hassle pass."

And now, decades later, we have trainers telling us that people like me are inherently racist because we grew up in a mostly white suburb. Really?

Mark17 · #12 07-25-2021, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And now, decades later, we have trainers telling us that people like me are inherently racist because we grew up in a mostly white suburb. Really?

Exactly. It is insidious and needs to be confronted. If someone generalized a negative attribute to all people of a particular minority race, we would all agree that is reprehensible, and the very definition of racism. Yet people can look at your skin color, and nothing else, and ascribe all sorts of negativity on you because you happen to be white.

It's the same exact concept, and it is a rotten thing on principle. The way to end racism in this country is to treat everyone with equal respect, until they, as individual people, through their own actions, prove otherwise. But you don't end racism my turning that evil cannon around and firing it at white people, thinking it is somehow evening the score.

carlsonjok · #13 07-25-2021, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark17

The only thing that will stop the cancel culture from continuing to mow down traditions in this country will be their hypocrisy, when they give certain people who have done reprehensible things a pass because of political affiliations.

It is far worse than you think. Not only will cancel culture mow down traditions, it will also lead to dancing among our children.

sdimag · #14 07-25-2021, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlsonjok

It is far worse than you think. Not only will cancel culture mow down traditions, it will also lead to dancing among our children.

�Dancing�? Is that what the cancel culture is calling rioting,looting,and burning now?

vintagetoppsguy · #15 07-25-2021, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtrain

Name calling that is devoid of logic does not win arguments

Starting your first post to me with, "I am sure that you know that your post is disingenuous BS" does not win arguments either.

Shoeless Moe · #16 07-25-2021, 05:15 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzGVlMGhKaE

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