ebay finds that PWCC engaged in shill bidding?

japhi · #1 08-21-2021, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

I don't see anything fishy at all about these sales. The selling prices are in line with what I would expect to see given the dates. In Feb, the market was twice as high as it is now. That 11k price lines up perfectly with the peak of the market. Someone bought in at the wrong time, then panicked and sold when the market crashed. And the sale dates line up perfectly with PWCC's monthly auctions. These look like normal sales to me.

My guess is the first sale was rigged, second guy thought he was getting a steal, went to flip it and the market said, ya that's a 5K card.

I suspect there were some BS BIN's leading up to the first sale.

In case anyone is wondering how this racket works, there is a pattern; a few BIN's get hit leading up to a PWCC auction. Those BIN's are to set a baseline. The PWCC card closes at a price higher then the BIN's and voila the hobby has a new baseline for that card. All you need is a multiple copies and a few friends and you can drive prices up substantially.

bnorth · #2 08-21-2021, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by japhi

My guess is the first sale was rigged, second guy thought he was getting a steal, went to flip it and the market said, ya that's a 5K card.

I suspect there were some BS BIN's leading up to the first sale.

In case anyone is wondering how this racket works, there is a pattern; a few BIN's get hit leading up to a PWCC auction. Those BIN's are to set a baseline. The PWCC card closes at a price higher then the BIN's and voila the hobby has a new baseline for that card. All you need is a multiple copies and a few friends and you can drive prices up substantially.

Hyping them up on a forum with a brother or friend(s) seems to help substantially with the above. or so I have heard

Snowman · #3 08-21-2021, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by japhi

My guess is the first sale was rigged, second guy thought he was getting a steal, went to flip it and the market said, ya that's a 5K card.

I suspect there were some BS BIN's leading up to the first sale.

In case anyone is wondering how this racket works, there is a pattern; a few BIN's get hit leading up to a PWCC auction. Those BIN's are to set a baseline. The PWCC card closes at a price higher then the BIN's and voila the hobby has a new baseline for that card. All you need is a multiple copies and a few friends and you can drive prices up substantially.

Even if they were able to succeed in doing this for x number of cards (and I fully acknowledge that this does in fact occur), it's still artificial demand and economic theory tells us that the market will adjust. The market as a whole, or even sub segments of it, is just far too big for it to be manipulated by a handful or even hundreds of transactions. Do people get scammed? Yes, for sure. Daily. But the broader market stabilizes to meet supply and demand.

Peter_Spaeth · #4 08-21-2021, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

Even if they were able to succeed in doing this for x number of cards (and I fully acknowledge that this does in fact occur), it's still artificial demand and economic theory tells us that the market will adjust. The market as a whole, or even sub segments of it, is just far too big for it to be manipulated by a handful or even hundreds of transactions. Do people get scammed? Yes, for sure. Daily. But the broader market stabilizes to meet supply and demand.

If you look at 2016, it seemed there was a price umbrella effect from the cards that were clearly manipulated resulting in increases across a wider spectrum of cards. Whether ultimately the market adjusts really doesn't lessen the pernicious effect of manipulation, especially in a market where information is so critical and where FOMO, maybe more than in other markets, is huge.

japhi · #5 08-21-2021, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

Even if they were able to succeed in doing this for x number of cards (and I fully acknowledge that this does in fact occur), it's still artificial demand and economic theory tells us that the market will adjust. The market as a whole, or even sub segments of it, is just far too big for it to be manipulated by a handful or even hundreds of transactions. Do people get scammed? Yes, for sure. Daily. But the broader market stabilizes to meet supply and demand.

The market for even the highest traded cards is miniscule. The PSA 10 Jordan trades what 50 times a year and there are multiple guys with 10+ of them.

Wake me up when a popular card trades more then a thousand times per day. Of course hundreds of transactions can manipulate a card price when that card only trades a thousand times per year.

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