Hey, pennant guys

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Gary, those are great, the white Red Sox is especially rare. Both of them are ASCO/Button House.

Agree that those are great. The Conigliaro is less than full size, is it not? I noticed the team pennant has the same "M" we've seen before. I'm not sure if Kyle or anyone else ever nailed that down...

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Agree that those are great. The Conigliaro is less than full size, is it not? I noticed the team pennant has the same "M" we've seen before. I'm not sure if Kyle or anyone else ever nailed that down...

Glad you mention it ... the mysterious "M" mark. Well, mystery solved.

"M" stands for Madaras, Inc. Guess where they were based? Minnesota. St. Paul, to be more precise.

Like ASCO, Madaras was an acronym; although I don't believe they ever marketed themselves as anything but "Madaras," it technically stood for "Marketing and Design and Research and Sales." That's a lot of ands, isn't it? You see why they just went with "Madaras" now, right?

(ASCO technically stood for "All Sports Company"; however, they too never identified themselves externally by their full name. They used "ASCO" because it put them near the top of the telephone directory.)

As I mentioned in Pennant Fever, ASCO was founded by Lars Granberg. (By the way, thanks for the plug, Gary!) I learned recently that he had a co-founder: Lou Hough. Together, they ran ASCO through the late 1960s. Eventually they split up. Granberg took ASCO; and eventually sold it to Campbell-Mithune, a large advertising firm based in Minneapolis. Hough, on the other hand, maintained his grasp on a lucrative artificial snow making business they had built together as a side-business. (Me: why do you need to make artificial snow when you live in f---ing Minnesota!? I don't know ... but that's what happened.)

By 1973 ASCO was in the hands of Campbell-Mithune, who had by then fired Granberg and most of his cronies from the company's leadership. So, Hough started his own pennant making venture! And thus, Madaras, Inc. was formed. What's more, for 18 months, Madaras had a license to manufacture MLB pennants. The "M"-marked pennants we've been discussing were made by them.

But wait! Don't these Madaras pennants look a lot like ASCO's work?? Turns out Granberg and Hough remained the best of friends well after their business split. Moreover, Madaras' pennant making factory was located at--wait for it--Second and Chestnut streets ... in Winona. Yup. So, nobody should be too surprised that these 1973-74 Madaras pennants resemble those from the previous decade by ASCO/Button House/Idea Promotions. They were likely made by the same Winonans; using ASCO's old artwork.

Think of Madaras as, like, a short-lived re-incarnation of ASCO.

So, in 1973, there were in fact three pennant makers making pennants in Winona: (1) ASCO/BH/IP; (2) WinCraft; and (3) Madaras. I'm beginning to think Winona was the pennant capital of the world!

[ooo-ribay]

Great information, Kyle…..as always!

[bocca001]

Agreed. Great stuff Kyle.

Here is an Astros with the M.

[MK]

Kyle you are the Sherlock Holmes of pennants! Great job!

[UKCardGuy]

Thanks Kyle. You're the pennant savant.

[Domer05]

I'm just glad someone appreciates this obscure side of the hobby!

My source on all this was a former ASCO employee that went on to help run Madaras in 1973. I showed him the "M" mark and he confirmed everything. I also asked about the equally mysterious "VET" mark we've discussed. Up to now, I was quite certain this was a concessionaire's mark used by ASCO during the early 1970s. So I inquired.... Unfortunately, he could not recall ever seeing it and could not identify its significance.

So there's still some mysteries left for us to solve.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by MK

Kyle you are the Sherlock Holmes of pennants! Great job!

I’m thinking more like Columbo.

[bocca001]

In my opinion, the VET pennants are relatively rare and unusual given how easy it is to find ASCO pennants of the same age. The version of Giants and Astros pennants marked with VET is rare when actually marked with "VET", but maybe even more rare when not (i.e., same pennant, not mark). I've seen some, but don't have any (vet colors/design, no vet mark). The vet versions also have a bit more color/design than the typical Giants/Astros ASCO pennant.

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Agree that those are great. The Conigliaro is less than full size, is it not? I noticed the team pennant has the same "M" we've seen before. I'm not sure if Kyle or anyone else ever nailed that down...

As I have the Tony and Billy Conigliaro pennant in hand...I can confirm it's 19.5" long.

Also following up the thread about ASCO/Madaras/Button House, Here's a photo of the rear of my Conigliaro pennant.

[BeanTown]

Does anyone have any period pennants which show Ty Cobb on it? I haven’t searched this long thread and sorry if one was showed earlier.

[UKCardGuy]

The only one that comes to mind are the 1916 Ferguson Bakery Ty Cobb Pennants

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

The only one that comes to mind are the 1916 Ferguson Bakery Ty Cobb Pennants

There is also a BF2 premium of Cobb

[Bugsy]

This one appears to have been removed from some kind of display. There was also a McGraw that had the same trimming and stitch holes.

[BeanTown]

Thanks for posting. I’ve never owned a Ty Cobb pennant before and I want to add one for the collection. I didn’t realize there were a couple options.