Who is the greatest player of the Pre-War Era?

nat · #1 09-21-2021, 01:40 PM

"Ruth broke the HR record 4 times! and won only 1 MVP."

For a while there was a rule that a player could win the MVP award only once. I don't know if that was holding Ruth back, but it might have been.

oldjudge · #2 09-21-2021, 03:28 PM

Not only did Ruth change the game, but he saved baseball after the Black Sox scandal. I think Cobb was two and Wagner three. Unfortunately, we will never know how Gibson would have done in the majors but because he never played there I cannot consider him.

Exhibitman · #3 09-21-2021, 04:19 PM

I notice only one pitcher on the original list. In terms of pitchers I would list the top 5 as:

Johnson
Grove
Young
Mathewson
Alexander

oldjudge · #4 09-21-2021, 09:17 PM

Kid Nichols had a short career but certainly deserves to be on any list of pitching greats. He started at the same time as Cy Yound (1890) and had more wins than Young in that decade. I believe he ranks number one in WAR/year played.

RCMcKenzie · #5 09-22-2021, 12:48 AM

Agree on Nichols. He is very high on the all-time WAR stat. I don't know all the metrics that go in to it, but it seems to churn out the right names. Eddie Collins and Alex Rodriguez are also high on the list, the other names are the ones most would guess.

rats60 · #6 09-22-2021, 07:12 AM

When Babe Ruth faced the best Negro League pitcher Satchel Paige, he hit a 500 foot home run off him. Ruth would have dominated any competition. Josh Gibson on the other hand struck out on 3 pitches after Paige intentionally walked 2 guys to face Gibson. Ruth is easily the greatest hitter ever.

Bill James ranks Honus Wagner #2. Although Wagner wasn't the hitter that Ruth was, he was the best hitter in the NL from 1900-1912 and was a gold glove level fielder at the most difficult position, shortstop. James has Willie Mays at #3.

tedzan · #7 09-22-2021, 09:01 AM

" Who is the greatest player of the Pre-War Era? "

Why is this poll limited to just the "Pre-War Era" ?

BABE RUTH is the greatest in Baseball in any era....19th Century, Pre-WWII, Post-WWII.

I believe in Divine Intervention.....George Herman Ruth was considered an "incorrigible" youngster; and, Brother Matthias at St. Mary�s
Industrial School straightened him out. And, introduced the young Ruth to Baseball and showed him how to play the game.

Then, when the game of Baseball was in serious trouble after the 1919 World Series, the Good Lord, in a dream, inspired Miller Huggins
to persuade Col. Jacob Ruppert (Yankees owner) to acquire Babe Ruth from Boston in December 1919.....and, the rest is history.

.

TED Z

T206 Reference
.

John1941 · #8 09-22-2021, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

When Babe Ruth faced the best Negro League pitcher Satchel Paige, he hit a 500 foot home run off him. Ruth would have dominated any competition. Josh Gibson on the other hand struck out on 3 pitches after Paige intentionally walked 2 guys to face Gibson. Ruth is easily the greatest hitter ever.

So you're condensing the careers of two guys who combined played for over 40 years into one at-bat each. That doesn't prove anything at all.

As I said, I haven't seen any unbiased studies proving that the Negro Leagues were equal to the major leagues. But it's clear that they were at least high minor league quality. Roy Campanella, Jackie Robinson, Willie Mays, Luke Easter, Monte Irvin, Larry Doby, Satchell Paige, and others all played in the Negro Leagues at the same time as Gibson.

Gibson led his league in home runs 11 times, and for his career had an OPS+ of 215. Bill James in his 1985 abstract estimates that a player moving from AAA to the majors would retain about 82% of their offensive production. I think the true number for the Negro Leagues would be between 82% and 100%. 90% seems reasonable to me. That would result in a career OPS+ of 194, four points higher than Ruth.

Part of this is just me being contrarian. I'm not certain of how good the Negro Leagues were, just having fun arguing.

View Poll Results: Sorry for the initial misstep in posting this poll. Please weigh in with your vote.
Ty Cobb	100	18.69%
Honus Wagner	21	3.93%
Rogers Hornsby	3	0.56%
Joe Jackson	3	0.56%
Lou Gehrig	16	2.99%
Josh Gibson	9	1.68%
Babe Ruth	355	66.36%
Frank Baker	2	0.37%
Walter Johnson	7	1.31%
None of the above	22	4.11%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 535. You may not vote on this poll

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