T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Pat R

I've been away since last Friday. I was set-up at the Philly Show (3 days). Visiting friends this week. When I return home,
I'll try to sort thru my records to see what I come up with.


Meanwhile, when are you going to correct your "buddies" (or whoever) at T206Resource regarding these 5 cards:

Ames (Hands Above Head) listed as "confirmed" with an AB460 back. This is absolutely a NO-PRINT.

Furthermore, the T206Resource checklist regarding PIEDMONT 350-460/42 includes these 4 subjects listed as "confirmed":

Bergen (catching)
Chance (batting)
Murray (portrait)
Wiltse (Portrait - With Cap)

These 4 cards are absolutely NO-PRINTS with PIEDMONT 350-460/42 backs.

For over 15 years, there are three of us, who individually, put together our P42 runs. And we have compared our experiences
collecting this sub-set. We are convinced that T206Resource is inaccurate, listing these 4 cards as "confirmed" with this back.


TED Z
.

Here's the Wiltse Ted

Wiltse PD42.jpg

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Here's the Wiltse Ted

Attachment 481065

I included Wiltse by mistake. My bad. Sorry about that, as I listed it off the top of my head (since I'm not at home).

The 4th inaccuracy in T206Resource 's PIEDMONT #42 checklist is Overall (Hands at waist level).

The PIEDMONT #42 sub-set is complete with exactly 72 subjects....63 from the 350/460 Series and 9 from the 460-only Series.


TED Z
.

[Pat R]

Ted I'm not sure why you're asking me about someone else's list but some research indicates the following cards in question were at some point confirmed by the following people....

Bergen (catching) Piedmont factory 42
Anonymous
Ted Z
Brian W


Murry (portrait) Piedmont factory 42
Dave Wipple
Ted Z
Scot R


Overall (hands at waist) Piedmont factory 42
Ted Z
Scot R

Chance (batting) Piedmont factory 42
Had your initials on Bill Browns super set spreadsheet

[tedzan]

Why do we have to repeat the same old stuff, over and over again ?

What you have posted are 15-year old data when Bill Brown first posted his T206 super-set spreadsheet in 2006. For the most part Bill's Excel sheet is accurate.
However, a number of wrong inputs did get reported.

Subsequently, as new information regarding T206 front/back patterns as a result of my theories (and other's theories), I contacted Net54er's who had inputted
questionable front/back combos on the spreadsheet. Starting with Ames (hands over head) / AB460. The guy who inputted this admitted he made a mistake.

I contacted the person who provided the Overall (hands at waist level). He realized he had made a mistake, since his card was the Overall (hand at face level).

Regarding Bergen.....here is my post on a thread regarding P42 cards dated: 3-16-2010

Originally Posted by tedzan

I have removed Bergen from the confirmed list, as I can't find whatever evidence I had that it was confirmed.
And like you, I have never seen one.

Regarding Chance.....here is my post on a thread regarding P42 cards dated: 3-17- 2010

Originally Posted by tedzan

I must say....that surprised me. I cannot find any evidence of Chance (batting) with a PIEDMONT 460/42 back.
I will look into why my initials are in that slot on the super-set.
TED Z

Furthermore, Adam Goldenberg, Craig Wright, and I were working on PIEDMONT #42 runs. The 3 of us kept in touch, trading and selling P42s to each other;
and, comparing notes. I think Adam completed his run. I am not certain if Craig did. All three of us agreed that only 9 subjects in the 460-only Series were
printed with P42. Several years have past since then, and NO additional new P42's have been discovered.

Chase (Trophy)
Latham
Marquard (follow thru)
Merkle (throwing)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (batting)
Schaefer (Washington)
Seymour (portrait)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)


TED Z
.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Why do we have to repeat the same old stuff, over and over again ?

What you have posted are 15-year old data when Bill Brown first posted his T206 super-set spreadsheet in 2006. For the most part Bill's Excel sheet is accurate.
However, a number of wrong inputs did get reported.

Subsequently, as new information regarding T206 front/back patterns as a result of my theories (and other's theories), I contacted Net54er's who had inputted
questionable front/back combos on the spreadsheet. Starting with Ames (hands over head) / AB460. The guy who inputted this admitted he made a mistake.

I contacted the person who provided the Overall (hands at waist level). He realized he had made a mistake, since his card was the Overall (hand at face level).

Regarding Bergen.....here is my post on a thread regarding P42 cards dated: 3-16-2010


Regarding Chance.....here is my post on a thread regarding P42 cards dated: 3-17- 2010



Furthermore, Adam Goldenberg, Craig Wright, and I were working on PIEDMONT #42 runs. The 3 of us kept in touch, trading and selling P42s to each other;
and, comparing notes. I think Adam completed his run. I am not certain if Craig did. All three of us agreed that only 9 subjects in the 460-only Series were
printed with P42. Several years have past since then, and NO additional new P42's have been discovered.

Chase (Trophy)
Latham
Marquard (follow thru)
Merkle (throwing)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (batting)
Schaefer (Washington)
Seymour (portrait)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)


TED Z
.

I asked you about the Tolstoi list you brought up the Ames and the Piedmont 42's.

I saw your post on the Bergen from 3-16-10 but you then re-confirmed
Bergen on 8-22-10.

Originally Posted by tedzan

The Bergen (catching) PIEDMONT factory 42 card has been confirmed.

The grand total is now 75 (out of 109) cards with PIEDMONT factory 42 backs that have been confirmed.

PIEDMONT 460 Factory #42 confirmed list............

350/460 Series......63 cards

Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Bender (no trees)
Berger
Bradley (bat)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Burch (fielding)
Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (blue portrait)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (red portrait)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Davis (A's)
Crawford (bat)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Larry Doyle (bat)

Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Evers (bat-yellow sky)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (both hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Jordan (bat)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (Boston)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Magee (bat)
Manning (pitching)
Mathewson (dark cap)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)

Murphy (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
White (pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (bat)

Willis (throwing)
Wiltse (throwing)
CYoung (glove)



460-only Series......12 cards

Bergen (catching)
Chase (Trophy)
Latham
Marquard (follow thru)
Merkle (throwing)
Murray (portrait)
Overall (blue sky)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (batting)
Schaefer (Washington)
Seymour (portrait)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)


This 460-only Series card has been reported but not 100% confirmed......

Chance (bat)


Any new PIEDMONT 460 Factory #42 inputs are greatly appreciated.


Thanks to all who have contributed to this T206 survey.

TED Z

[tedzan]

This ends my discussion with you. Once again, for the umpteenth time, you have "side-tracked" the Topic of this thread.
Go play your "negative games" with some one else. This ends any further discussion with you....PERIOD !


Dated 7-9-2015.....

Originally Posted by tedzan

With the recent discovery of Tinker (bat off shoulder) the confirmed total now is 72 subjects with the PIEDMONT 460, factory #42 back.






PIEDMONT 460 Factory #42 confirmed list............

350/460 Series......63 subjects (complete)

Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Bender (no trees)
Berger
Bradley (bat)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Burch (fielding)
Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (blue portrait)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (red portrait)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Davis (A's)
Crawford (bat)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Larry Doyle (bat)

Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Evers (bat-yellow sky)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (both hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Jordan (bat)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (Boston)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Magee (bat)
Manning (pitching)
Mathewson (dark cap)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)

Murphy (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
White (pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (bat)

Willis (throwing)
Wiltse (throwing)
CYoung (glove)



460-only Series......9 subjects

Chase (Trophy)
Latham
Marquard (follow thru)
Merkle (throwing)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (batting)
Schaefer (Washington)
Seymour (portrait)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)


Other Net54 sources claim that the following 4 subjects are confirmed.

Chance (batting)
Bergen (catching)
Murray (portrait)
Overall (blue sky)

My research indicates that these 4 subjects are PIEDMONT 460, factory #42 No-Prints.



TED Z
.

[Tao_Moko]

Ted,

How have you been? Thanks for this massive contribution that you've consolidated and curated.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Pat R

I've been away since last Friday. I was set-up at the Philly Show (3 days). Visiting friends this week. When I return home,
I'll try to sort thru my records to see what I come up with.


Meanwhile, when are you going to correct your "buddies" (or whoever) at T206Resource regarding these 5 cards:

Ames (Hands Above Head) listed as "confirmed" with an AB460 back. This is absolutely a NO-PRINT.

Furthermore, the T206Resource checklist regarding PIEDMONT 350-460/42 includes these 4 subjects listed as "confirmed":

Bergen (catching)
Chance (batting)
Murray (portrait)
Wiltse (Portrait - With Cap)

These 4 cards are absolutely NO-PRINTS with PIEDMONT 350-460/42 backs.

For over 15 years, there are three of us, who individually, put together our P42 runs. And we have compared our experiences
collecting this sub-set. We are convinced that T206Resource is inaccurate, listing these 4 cards as "confirmed" with this back.


TED Z
.

Originally Posted by tedzan

This ends my discussion with you. Once again, for the umpteenth time, you have "side-tracked" the Topic of this thread.
Go play your "negative games" with some one else. This ends any further discussion with you....PERIOD !


Dated 7-9-2015.....

Really Ted? Maybe you should pay more attention to what you post. You made the sarcastic comment. If you have a problem with the t206resource
list why don't you contact Tim he's the one that makes the changes to their lists.

[sreader3]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Ted I'm not sure why you're asking me about someone else's list but some research indicates the following cards in question were at some point confirmed by the following people....

Bergen (catching) Piedmont factory 42
Anonymous
Ted Z
Brian W


Murry (portrait) Piedmont factory 42
Dave Wipple
Ted Z
Scot R


Overall (hands at waist) Piedmont factory 42
Ted Z
Scot R

Chance (batting) Piedmont factory 42
Had your initials on Bill Browns super set spreadsheet

Well since my name was mentioned I might as well respond. While I did conduct large surveys back in the day, it is possible that whatever Murray and/or Overall P42 “confirmation” data I may have published came from reports by advanced collectors with whom I was in touch. It is also possible that these data points resulted from ebay listings with incorrect PSA flips or back scans, which happened from time to time.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by sreader3

Well since my name was mentioned I might as well respond. While I did conduct large surveys back in the day, it is possible that whatever Murray and/or Overall P42 “confirmation” data I may have published came from reports by advanced collectors with whom I was in touch. It is also possible that these data points resulted from ebay listings with incorrect PSA flips or back scans, which happened from time to time.

Hi Scot

The Murray and the Overall mistakes are not your fault. One of the first threads regarding PIEDMONT #42 cards dates back to December 2006.
https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...3456&highlight

Brian Weisner posted this list of his P#42 cards.....

Hi Ted,
Here is the list of my 42's:

BAKERTHROW
COBBBAT OFF
COBBBAT OFF
CRAWFORDBAT
KLEINOWBOSTON
KONETCHYGL LOW
LATHAMPOR
LATHAMNY NAT
MANNINGPITCH
MATHEWSONDARK
MATHEWSONDCAP
MCINTYREBR&CH
OVERALLTHROW
PELTYVERT
SWEENEYTHROW
SEYMOURTHROW
SMITHCHI&BOS
SNODGRASSCATCH
WAGNERRIGHT
WHITECHI

However, this Overall card was inputted into the Super-Set spreadsheet as the 460-only series version of Overall (Hands at Waist).
It should have been entered in as the "Hand at Face" (350/460 series) version.

Your 2005 - 2006 publication of "Inside T206" inspired many of us Net54ers to seriously explore the complexities of the T206 set.
Resulting in discoveries, such, as the...Elite 11.....Exclusive 12.....Mutually-Exclusive 350/460 Series.....Red-Ink Twins....etc., etc.
Which provided us clearer understanding of how these cards were printed. Thereby informing us of valid T206 front/back combos.


Take care my good friend,

TED Z
.

[sreader3]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Scot

The Murray and the Overall mistakes are not your fault. One of the first threads regarding PIEDMONT #42 cards dates back to December 2006.
https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...3456&highlight

Brian Weisner posted this list of his P#42 cards.....

Hi Ted,
Here is the list of my 42's:

BAKERTHROW
COBBBAT OFF
COBBBAT OFF
CRAWFORDBAT
KLEINOWBOSTON
KONETCHYGL LOW
LATHAMPOR
LATHAMNY NAT
MANNINGPITCH
MATHEWSONDARK
MATHEWSONDCAP
MCINTYREBR&CH
OVERALLTHROW
PELTYVERT
SWEENEYTHROW
SEYMOURTHROW
SMITHCHI&BOS
SNODGRASSCATCH
WAGNERRIGHT
WHITECHI

However, this Overall card was inputted into the Super-Set spreadsheet as the 460-only series version of Overall (Hands at Waist).
It should have been entered in as the "Hand at Face" (350/460 series) version.

Your 2005 - 2006 publication of "Inside T206" inspired many of us Net54ers to seriously explore the complexities of the T206 set.
Resulting in discoveries, such, as the...Elite 11.....Exclusive 12.....Mutually-Exclusive 350/460 Series.....Red-Ink Twins....etc., etc.
Which provided us clearer understanding of how these cards were printed. Thereby informing us of valid T206 front/back combos.


Take care my good friend,

TED Z
.

Hi Ted. Thanks for your kind words. You and I know better than anyone that 2006 was the Dark Ages of T206. The best one can hope for is to advance a project striving for perfection but knowing he (or she) will fall short. Take care my friend.

[sreader3]

If anyone cares to understand the T206 landscape as of 2009, which is not all that dissimilar from today's landscape, see:

https://oldcardboard.com/t/t206/Insi...al-edition.pdf

Some fun history, anecdotes and theories.